'Copy NTFS permissions' does not work when moving

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-01-28, 09:34 UTC

While testing the XPMoveMethod wincmd.ini key, I suddenly realized that the checkbox Copy NTFS permissions does not work at all in Move dialog (not Copy — there it works fine!).

Here is a simple example.
Suppose, we have two folders: C:\Temp1\ and C:\Temp2\. The first has access rights for the current user account only (here I'll call it just Flint) — full control; the second — for the Administrators group only, full control. All other permissions are removed.

In C:\Temp1\ there are 4 files: file1.txt, file2.txt, file3.txt, file4.txt. All of them have access rights inherited from C:\Temp1\ (that is, Flint: full control). Now make 4 experiments:
1. Move file1.txt into C:\Temp2\ with XPMoveMethod=0 and not checking the Copy NTFS permissions checkbox.
2. Move file2.txt into C:\Temp2\ with XPMoveMethod=0 and with checked the Copy NTFS permissions checkbox.
3. Move file3.txt into C:\Temp2\ with XPMoveMethod=1 and not checking the Copy NTFS permissions checkbox.
4. Move file4.txt into C:\Temp2\ with XPMoveMethod=1 and with checked the Copy NTFS permissions checkbox.

The results are:
file1.txt — Flint: full control.
file2.txt — Flint: full control.
file3.txt — Administrators: full control.
file4.txt — Administrators: full control.

So, you can see that the checkbox "Copy NTFS permissions" did nothing. So, what is it for, in this case?

icfu · Post by *icfu » 2008-01-28, 10:05 UTC

Some years ago...:
http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=36328#36328

Icfu

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-01-28, 10:13 UTC

Oops...

I always send others to search, and forgot to use it myself. Praying on my knees to forgive me...

2 Moderators: Please, merge the threads (for bumping the older one).

icfu · Post by *icfu » 2008-01-28, 10:24 UTC

Not sure if merging is a good idea, because ghisler has replaced a former annoyance (redundant XPMoveMethod setting plus state of permissions checkbox) with a true bug (checkbox has no effect at all now).

Icfu

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-01-28, 10:59 UTC

icfu wrote:Not sure if merging is a good idea, because ghisler has replaced a former annoyance (redundant XPMoveMethod setting plus state of permissions checkbox) with a true bug (checkbox has no effect at all now).

That's why I wanted to bump the old thread. You pointed there to this bug, but Christian did not reply. And, of course, I support the suggestion to correct the behaviour to more logical one.

Post by *ghisler(Author) » 2008-01-28, 21:21 UTC

Sorry, this behaviour will not be changed. TC uses the default behaviour of the MoveFileEx function, that's what most people will expect.

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-01-28, 21:26 UTC

ghisler(Author) wrote:TC uses the default behaviour of the MoveFileEx function, that's what most people will expect.

The discussion is not at all about the behaviour! It is about the checkboxes. Currently, I have to use XPMoveMethod for moving inside one partition, and Copy NTFS permissions checkbox when moving between different partitions. What does default behaviour of MoveFileEx have to do with it? We just suggest to combine these two options into one and make e.g. the Copy NTFS permissions option working in both cases.

icfu · Post by *icfu » 2008-01-28, 21:28 UTC

Most people expect that checkboxes which are not grayed out and disabled have an effect. Usually the expected effect is what the text beneath the checkbox says.

An intelligent solution would be to read XPMoveMethod setting and then check or uncheck the checkbox in the dialog with the ability to TOGGLE the checkbox to change the behaviour temporarily.

What TC does now is NOT what most users expect.

Icfu

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-02-18, 16:36 UTC

Bump.

ghisler(Author)
Any comments?

Post by *ghisler(Author) » 2008-02-18, 17:25 UTC

The checkbox is there for the case that the source and target are on two different physical disks, e.g. different drive letters or mounted drives.

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-02-18, 17:39 UTC

Yes, we understood that. What about the suggestion to make it universal?

Post by *ghisler(Author) » 2008-02-21, 20:20 UTC

I'm trying to mimic Explorer moving as much as possible: Keep file permissions when moving within same drive, changing them to target dir when moving to different drive. This wouldn't be possible when the NTFS checkbox had any effect when moving within the same drive.

Flint · Post by *Flint » 2008-02-21, 20:59 UTC

ghisler(Author) wrote:I'm trying to mimic Explorer moving as much as possible

That's not right even for copying/moving itself when drag&dropping: Explorer suggests copying between different drives and moving inside one drive, and TC - always copying. So, why mimic one behaviour without mimicing other, more global behaviour? I don't understand it. And in my opinion, such behaviour confuses users instead of helping them (yes, as well as Explorer's. Why repeat others' bugs?).

And in any case, comparison with Explorer is not valid. Explorer does not have an option about NTFS permissions, while TC does. And what does user see? He opens the Move dialog, checks the explicit, unambiguous option "Copy NTFS permissions", performs the operation — and permissions are not copied! Why? No answer. The option is named Copy NTFS permissions, and not Copy NTFS permissions when moving to another drive! Really, Christian, I can't believe you consider this as correct and logical behaviour!