Bug?: Move files + [Skip All] dont delete skipped files

[islogged]

Hi,
Hum, i don't know how to explain this.

Sometime i need to move some Source directory (full of datas) who already exist in a target destination (but with less datas than the source).

F6 for move, but i don't like to waste time to overwriting the exist datas in the target way, then i choose the "Skip All" option.
The problem after this it's the Source directory is not deleted because it keep all the Skiped Files.

I think it's not a normal behavior, because in a Move Operation Source need to be erased
Is-it a bug ?

Ps:
Of couse i can manually delete the source after when the Move operations are finished.
But first it's mean the Move operation become like a Copy one ...
And Second, i often use multiples Background Move and of course after i always forget to delete all the Directories Sources of my Moves ...

I'm not sure to be clear.
Anyway Thanks for answering ...

[Horst.Epp]

No, its not a bug !
Its a safety feature which prevents loosing files which where not copied.

[islogged]

Its a safety feature which prevents loosing files which where not copied.

It's not a Bug ... it's a Feature ! ^^
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature

Ok, but for me it stay like a Bug !
If i decide to use a Move option, it's for a Copy + a Suppression of the Source (in any cases).

Example :
If i want to move c:\file.txt to d:\ => the End need to be c:\ and d:\file.txt
If d:\file.txt exist before move it's like if already moved then you need to delete c:\file.txt to get a Real Move Operation and get the correct End State of a Move c:\ d:\file.txt


An Move + Overwrite are more dangerous than that, because files overwrited can not be easily recover. (and Tc don't make a backup copy of them)
A Move + Skip All are less dangerous because finally and in any cases the Target destination always contain 100% of the Source files (even with Skip All)

Tc it's not a File Manager for Dummies.
And i think it's not to Tc to Auto-decide to backup files or not in a Move operation.

I can understand this choice for the Microsoft File Manager include in Windows, but not for Tc.
Maybe the best way it's to let decide the final user if he want backup the Source in a Move action or not.

You got my point.
And you got the problem this issue does. (end of my first post)

The discussion is open !

[HolgerK]

Example :
If i want to move c:\file.txt to d:\ the End need to be c:\ and d:\file.txt
If d:\file.txt exist before move it's like if already moved then you need to delete c:\file.txt to get a Real Move Operation and get the correct End State of a Move c:\ d:\file.txt

A Move + Skip All are less dangerous because finally and in any cases the Target destination always contain 100% of the Source files (even with Skip All)

Wrong!

The bug is your assumption that "skip all+deleting" the source (c:\file.txt) would be the same as "overwriting" the destination (d:\file.txt).
These files can not be guaranteed to have the same content.
So [Skip all] or [Overwrite all] can lead to different content of file d:\file.txt after your move operation.

Regards
Holger

[islogged]

So [Skip all] or [Overwrite all] can lead to different content of file d:\file.txt after your move operation.

In [Overwrite all] Target:\file.txt == Source:\file.txt
In [Skip all] Target:\file.txt == Source:\file.txt ... or not ! => (I'm ok with that)

Anyway when Tc detect two same files (name, size and date i think) it already ask for that : http://i.imgur.com/3jcAUzD.jpg

If i want update the Target i choose [Overwrite All].
If i don't want update the files from Target i choose [Skip All] but anyway the Source need to be deleted.

A Move include a change of place or it's not a Move ... It's a Stay !
Sorry but i can't argue more ^^

[Dalai]

When Tc detect two same files (name, size and date i think) it already ask for that : http://i.imgur.com/3jcAUzD.jpg

Wrong, again. TC only checks the file name. Any other criteria (contents, date, size, attributes, ADS, permissions etc) can be different.

Regards
Dalai

[islogged]

Wrong, again. TC only checks the file name. Any other criteria (contents, date, size, attributes, ADS, permissions etc) can be different.

Ok maybe, anyway it doesn't change the logic !
A Move with files who Stay is not a Move ... even i skip.

Something wrong or something miss in the options : http://i.imgur.com/3jcAUzD.jpg
[Skip All] + [Skip All + Delete] ?

Sorry.

[Dalai]

A Move with files who Stay is not a Move ... even i skip.

Correct. A move operation (= copy + delete) is only performed for the files that were actually moved. If you skip any files, TC can't decide whether you want to keep those files, so they're left untouched in the source. If TC would delete them, it could cause loss of data, because as already explained source and destination files can be completely different (except their name).

Regards
Dalai

[islogged]

Then which options i choose if > Me < i know the @Destination file is the same as the @Source file ???

TC can't decide whether you want to keep those files

The decision is took by the user at this point : http://i.imgur.com/3jcAUzD.jpg

Choice 1 : Overwrite
Because the user know #Source <> @Destination, and he want keep the #Source version

Choice 2 : Rename
Because the user don't know if #Source <> @Destination, then he want keep two versions of this files (Source Version + Destination Version)

Choice 3 : > For me Skip <
Because the user know #Source == @Destination, then he no need to keep the Source version.

If we try to stay logical, there are only 2 ways of this problem :

Or [Skip option] do what i think and get the bug i explained !
Or [Skip option] don't make sens + the choice 3, a choice that the user really need => don't exist ! (miss option)

Hoping to finally understand us
Thanks ^^

[Dalai]

Then which options i choose if > Me < i know the @Destination file is the same as the @Source file ???

TC can't decide whether you want to keep those files

The decision is took by the user at this point : http://i.imgur.com/3jcAUzD.jpg

No, I'm talking about the time AFTER you chose skip! TC can't know if the files have the same contents, the same attributes, permissions etc. It would be possible to compare attributes, permissions and so on, but quite silly (and time-consuming) to compare every file by contents to make sure they're identical.

Or [Skip option] do what i think and get the bug i explained !

There is no bug. It's up to the user to decide whether the source file is to be kept.

The skip option in the current implementation does make sense. What about completing/merging two directories that may contain files with the same name (on a new location)?

The skip option simply means "skip" and does what it's labeled. If you think it means "skip + delete source" then it's up to you. You might suggest a new function/button, but I think it's highly unlikely that it gets implemented since the dialog is already overloaded with buttons as it is.

Regards
Dalai

[islogged]

but I think it's highly unlikely that it gets implemented since the dialog is already overloaded with buttons as it is.

There is a menu list easily to extend in [More Options >>]

The skip option in the current implementation does make sense. What about completing/merging two directories that may contain files with the same name (on a new location)?

Choice n°2 : Rename, Rename existing target file, Auto-rename copied, Auto-rename target, Append, etc ... at choice !

The skip option simply means "skip" and does what it's labeled. If you think it means "skip + delete source" then it's up to you.

Maybe [skip] and [skip all] does what it tell, but nobody need this option here (or maybe marginally, i can't see) we need to replace this option by [del source] and [del all source] and move [skip] and [skip all] in [More Options >>] section for marginally use.

I understand the fact, i understand what skip does, and u confirm me it's not a bug ...
Then it's a problem of the Move features in Tc ...

I use Move function to move my files from the #Source, but at the final some of files stay inside the #Source and it's not the result i wait for a Move functionality.

The only way i have to avoid this, it's to choose [Overwrite All] and overwrite/re-write all the similar files (i know) for nothing.
On 500Go of similar files don't u think i loose time to re-write 500Go files for nothing ? My hard disk hate me ^^

Why nobody understand what i told ?

Sorry, but I maintain my position that makes more sense than the current implementation of the actually Move function.

Hope Mr Ghisler can read and react to this.
Thank you.

[Dalai]

The skip option in the current implementation does make sense. What about completing/merging two directories that may contain files with the same name (on a new location)?

Choice n°2 : Rename, Rename existing target file, Auto-rename copied, Auto-rename target, Append, etc ... at choice !

Merging two directories and renaming files in the process (whether in source or target) or changing their contents isn't always the expected/desirable result, don't you think?

The skip option simply means "skip" and does what it's labeled. If you think it means "skip + delete source" then it's up to you.

Maybe [skip] or [skip all] does what it tell, but nobody need this option here (or maybe marginally, i can't see)

I need this feature and I used it a couple of days ago. And I guess there are other people who use it, too.

Why nobody understand what i told ?

On the contrary: I understand your point of view, but I don't see it the same way.

Let's wait for Ghisler to reply on the matter.

Regards
Dalai

[islogged]

Merging two directories and renaming files in the process (whether in source or target) or changing their contents isn't always the expected/desirable result, don't you think?

I don't know, i can't see a concrete example to use [skip]/[skip all] functionality.

I need this feature and I used it a couple of days ago. And I guess there are other people who use it, too.

Maybe, then we need to keep [skip]/[skip all] functionality, just only move it in the [More Options >>] section ^^

On the contrary: I understand your point of view

Thank u

but I don't see it the same way.

Yeah but in the fact, my way don't exist in Tc ^^

Thanks at All and thanks for All

[Stefan2]

F6 for move,

but i don't like to waste time to overwriting the exist datas in the target way,

then i choose the "Skip All" option.

The problem after this it's the Source directory is not deleted because it keep all the Skiped Files.

Just execute menu "Mark > Restore Selection" in the source directory after the move has finished, followed by pressing the Del-key.


Problem solved?


If you need 'your way' more often, just write (or ask for) a user command to '[face=comicsansms]move and overwrite always, don't ask me ever, I know what I do[/face]'.
Join that command to the TC menu or to an shortcut and you have what you want.




 

[silencer]

Interesting, while this feature could be very usefull, it's also dangerous I think. (For the reasons allready discussed)

I really don't see the skip (all) option the way you do, also windows command line handles this scenario in the same way as TC.
So IMHO this is not a bug indeed, but a new functionality.

Funny thing is, explorer doesn't have a skip option at all (at least in win7)
Move and replace (overwrite)
Don't move (cancel)
Move, but keep both files (auto rename)

Just execute menu "Mark > Restore Selection"

This only works when you wait for the operation to finish.