Users norfie and nevidimka have been banned

[ghisler(Author)]

The users "norfie" and "nevidimka" have been banned from this forum by consent of all 3 moderators and the administrator (me) because of repeated insulting and provocations against other forum members - despite several warnings.

May this be a warning also to all other forum members. If you cannot respect the forum rules, you should better leave this forum. In general I'm a big fan of free speech, but enough is enough - the freedom of an individual ends where it affects the freedom and integrity of all others.

If you do not agree, you can discuss about this decision in THIS thread only. The discussion is off-topic in other threads.

[Xtrician]

You are right 100%..!

[SanskritFritz]

I definitely do NOT agree with this decision. We know that the Igonore button was introduced in this forum partly because of Norfie. Is that not enough? I saw many members of this forum taking the offences Norfie/Nevidimka DID issue, but they did not ignore him. Why? Norfie might have been rude or provocative sometimes, but really helpful on the other hand and has valuable knowledge, which is very useful for all of us. If this is the way we deal with users who have different opinions, that is sad. I can understand the reasons, but not the decision. I am equally sad as when Icfu left as an answer to Ghislers serious warning. Luckily we have Icfu back, and I hope to have Norfie back also, not necessarily because i agree with him, but because he is part of the forum (family?) here.

[gbo]

I find it a bit extreme to ban users, perhaps a one month ban would it be more suitable. IMHO. But I'm surely not awared of all the story...

For what I noticed both have help other users quite often in general, so it will be a 'lost' on this aspect.

Just my opinion.

[ghisler(Author)]

The problem with the one month ban: About one year ago, norfie deleted all his posts, and caused a lot of damage to this forum. If I unbanned him, the same thing may repeat itself. I have been very very patient with them, but they continued their provocations despite my and the moderator's interventions (in the forums and by e-mail).

[Sheepdog]

I agree with the decision.

I think it was really annoying how he constantly continued to provoke a few users ( yes I felt provoked, too).

It's not about having different opinions about somtehing. That I can stand.
It's his intention to tease someone I often sensed in his posts.

my 2 cent.

sheepdog

[SanskritFritz]

About one year ago, norfie deleted all his posts

He explained it in his sig: "This posting was removed by me as a result of an interference by a moderator".

caused a lot of damage to this forum

How can someone cause damage by deleting his own posts???

If I unbanned him, the same thing may repeat itself.

Even if it did, which is not sure, as people get older and mature, what harm could he do? Insult some users here? We have been just as rude with him, so we should be banned too, at the end only the moderators and the admin remains.

I think the Ignore button is just perfect, if someone feels provoked by someone.

[Lefteous]

2SanskritFritz

He explained it in his sig: "This posting was removed by me as a result of an interference by a moderator".

The full quote (English part) is:

This posting was removed by me as a result of an interference by Lefteous(Moderator).

The message in this signature is a lie. There is no correlation between all these deleted posts and an "interference". I never asked him to delete his posts.
We had to post a sticky to make this clear:
http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?t=4950
Norfie may not have agreed with a moderation comment added by me but is this a reason to delete all your posts? If you really think you have the point will you do something like this?
There is no thinkable apology for such an action.

How can someone cause damage by deleting his own posts???

I really don't understand such a question. The answer is obvious: If everyone would do the same all knowledge is lost.
As you wrote he has been

really helpful on the other hand and has valuable knowledge

These ~ 1000 posts cannot be helpful, right?
Users (some of them ) regularly use the search function and answer to a thread where norfie has deleted his posts. These threads are coming back this way. They are completely unreadable in many cases.

We have been just as rude with him

I think we have been really patient - but as Ghisler wrote

enough is enough

[SanskritFritz]

Ok, I see the point and actually never failed to see it. I just try to imagine how he thought, and in the given cicumstances, he probably thought, that the moderators were invading his opinion being different. My feeling is just that we excluded a kid from the community (family?) forever just because he was nasty. Yes, he might have been nasty for a long time, but banning... dont forget that we also provoked him many times. Who was the starter of a quarrel is almost irrelevant.
If he is really a wounded kid but has knowledge, he will return even nastier, making our life much harder.
But that was a decision after much thinking I'm sure, and if you feel this is the appropriate way to handle the problem, we elected you as moderators, we trust that you were right (You in plural).

[JohnFredC]

There is a difference between being provocative and being nasty.

There are a couple of provocative posters here, but as you get used to them you "see" the humor in their eyes.

Whether intentional or not, Norfie's later posts showed little (no!) humor to leaven the provocativeness.

With the ignore button available, I question the absolute necessity to ban Norfie, but on the other hand, this is not a contentious forum and it is reassuring that the moderators and Mr. Ghisler mean to keep it that way.

Thanks for a great forum, and great software!

[Sir_SiLvA]

We know that the Igonore button was introduced in this forum partly because of Norfie.

But the Button is useless when you read the board by rss

[SanskritFritz]

the moderators and Mr. Ghisler mean to keep it that way.

That is maybe the best summary, agreed!

[SanskritFritz]

But the Button is useless when you read the board by rss

Oops, i didnt know that.

[wanderer]

Sorry to hear that things had to end up this way for users in this forum.

I haven't been following this forum for a while now because i don't have enough time. I didn't know "nevidimka" but as far as i can remember, "norfie" was a very active user here. IMHO, the purpose of this forum and the reason people are visiting it, is to find help and exchange knowledge and opinions about TC. I don't know if the decision to ban these users is correct or not, this is subjective anyway but Ghisler certainly has the right to ban any user he wishes if the user does not follow the forum rules. After all, he created the forum for the reasons mentioned above, everybody knows the forum rules and if he cannot follow them, he will have to face the consequences.

As in real life, when you interact with people, you must have a certain attitude and follow a certain set of rules, otherwise you are being "ignored" at best or have more serious problems at worst. Having all that in mind, i'd like to say mainly to the two banned users (if they ever read this) but also to Ghilser and the forum admins to take some time to analyse and judge their actions and as objectively as possible decide if the "ban" decision was justified or not. I don't know norfie and nevidimka but i'd like to say to them that if their behaviour was so extreme that forced the admins of this forum to ban them (which is not the end of the world) perhaps they should take some time to re-evaluate it in order to avoid similar situations in their real lives in the future (which might have more serious consequences than a simple "forum banning").


My friendly 2 c.

[Hacker]

wanderer,

i'd like to say mainly to the two banned users (if they ever read this) but also to Ghilser and the forum admins to take some time to analyse and judge their actions and as objectively as possible decide if the "ban" decision was justified or not.

I am not sure if I understand you right. Naturally, there has been a thorough discussion about the ban between the moderators / admin before the ban.

Hacker (Moderator)