problem file copy into syswow64-system32

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Jamka
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problem file copy into syswow64-system32

Post by *Jamka »

I have problem with copying files into system directory syswow64 and system32. TCMD think that are the same. 1 file I copy into syswow64 , this file is in system32 too and is the same. Cmd dir and explorer are showing only 1 file in syswow64. And inverted also. Restart PC, ctr+R or F5 do not help. Where is problem? My PC- w2008r2sp1-64b, tcmd 56a-32b. (I can send screenshot)

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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

Hello, Jamka.

No need to send a screenshot in this case.
No Total Commander 7.56a bug in this case.
Please, find the explanation and the workaround in this sticky thread: Windows x64: Explorer vs TC: Content of System32 different.
For 32-bit applications C:\windows\system32 and C:\windows\Syswow64 are identical.
From a 32-bit application, you can access the real System32 folder (holding the 64-bit parts of Windows) by going to C:\Windows\SysNative instead.

HTH,
Karl

technext
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Post by *technext »

You can use this.

It works for me.

long # path # tool # com/

LeeBinder
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Post by *LeeBinder »

technext wrote:You can use this.

It works for me.

l p tool com
:evil: BS - scam - different problem, and that site has (at least) a bad reputation accdg. to WOT ..

PS: 7.57 rc 2 is still 32 and does NOT solve this "bug" ..

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MVV
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Post by *MVV »

LeeBinder, I think technext is just a spambot.
LeeBinder wrote:PS: 7.57 rc 2 is still 32 and does NOT solve this "bug" ..
It is NOT A BUG, it is a dumb Windows feature called REDIRECTION. It substitutes SysWow64 folder with 32-bit files for real System32 folder with 64-bit files.
TC provides some workarounds: one of them is disabling redirection (it is bad to use it, it brings a lot of side effects) and the other one is to access real System32 folder via folder link (SysNative mentioned by karlchen is Windows-defined one).

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Lefteous
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Post by *Lefteous »

Great! Now that TC 7.57 will be relased the old problems come back as no 7.57 64 Bit exists :roll:

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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

LeeBinder wrote:PS: 7.57 rc 2 is still 32 and does NOT solve this "bug" ..
As MVV already and rightly explained, there is no bug involved. You should have read my reply in this thread. It points to a sticky thread indirectly covering the reported issue: Windows x64: Explorer vs TC: Content of System32 different.

Karl
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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

Hello, Lefteous.
Lefteous wrote:Great! Now that TC 7.57 will be relased the old problems come back as no 7.57 64 Bit exists :roll:
The initial report was about Total Commander 7.56a.

It was LeeBinder who neglected to read my reply carefully and get the explanation for the reported behaviour from the linked sticky thread and who therefore incorrectly talked about a bug not fixed in T.C. 7.57 where there is no bug in either T.C. 7.56a or T.C. 7.57.

T.C. 7.57 as a 32-bit programme will not bring back any old problem, because the problem has been there since the introduction of Windows 64-bit. And more importantly, the problem is still present even in Total Commander 8.0ß20 32-bit like in any 32-bit application when run on 64-bit Windows.

Hence no real reason for artificial excitement. We all know you do not agree to Christian's decision to create a T.C. 7.56a bugfix release named T.C. 7.57. :wink:

Karl
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Post by *LeeBinder »

hey hey guys, easy - too many assumptions and pointing fingers - please give me time to respond, I'm very busy!

First of all, I wrote "bug" not bug .... mind the connotation = significant difference in meaning ...

2nd I sure did all the reading here on the forum incl. "Windows x64: Explorer vs TC: Content of System32 different", so again everything else is jumping to conclusions, all right .. ;)

Yes, this IS a dumb new Windows "feature". I know how to create Symlinks, and I did create one with the 'Link Shell Extension' http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html which is much easier than with Junction as Christian suggests in his thread about this issue. So now I have a Symlink folder right above 'System 32' labeled 'System 32 - Symbolic Link'. Double click, done!

BUT: being a bit of a coder myself (not by far as gifted as Christinan), I need to say that this would *easily* be solvable from within TC even as 32 bit version if Christian wanted to, with these two additional queries in the code:

when TC 32 gets launched:

Code: Select all

function DumbWindows64FolderRedirection (trueOrfalse)
if (arch = x86_64)
and
(OS name = 'Windows Vista' or 'Windows 7' or 'Windows Server 2008' etc)
then
trueOrfalse := true
else
trueOrfalse := false
end if
in the code for the filemanager, when clicking from one folder level into the next:

Code: Select all

if
(label of doubleclickedFolder=System32)
and
DumbWindows64FolderRedirection = true
then
display (%Windir%\Sysnative)
else if
display (%Windir%\System32)
end if
This is just a rough code outline not actual code. Pre-executing a bit of the query in a launch-time function saves a few computing cycles. I am absolutely positive that this tiny query, which would get executed with every doubleclick in either of the filemanager panels, will not lead to the slightest noticeable decrease in responsiveness.

Karlchen? And above all, Christian? ;)

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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

Hi, LeeBinder.

The programme author decided to stick to the official Microsoft approach. I.e. when it became available he added the invisible alias "Sysnative" even as a permanently visible pseudo foldername. So users of 32-bit versions of Total Commander can access the genuine system32 folder by navigating to Sysnative instead.
If they click on System32 instead, Total Commander will do what Microsoft expects it to do, it will allow itself to be redirected to SysWow64 and display its contents.
I cannot tell why Christian decided to follow the Microsoft rules and not to work around them automatically.
My workaround since the release of Total Commander 8.0ß1 64-bit is really trivial: Use Total Commander 8.0 beta 64-bit on Windows 64-bit systems. 8)

Cheers,
Karl
Linux Mint 19.3 64-bit xfce Desktop, Total Commander 9.51 64-bit
Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)

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Post by *LeeBinder »

Hi karlchen,

thanks for your input.

I have been thinking that Sysnative is a Windows redirection alias not one specific to TC, because trying to go c:\Windows\Sysnative in Win Explorer 64 throws an error.

I now see this folder in TC. It's not right "next" to System32 so I have not noticed it before .. that's why I like my Symlink as direct neighbor to System32.

Yes, I am aware that, when using 8 64 current beta, none of this has to be dealt with (and I was happy to see that the key I had purchased still works with v.8). But as Chr. states, it's a BETA, and since I use TC all the time and for biz, I can't take the risk of being a beta tester.

I'm happy with my Symlink for now. Let alone this is MS' approach, it creates a user-unfriendly situation in TC 32, with the regular user just realizing that what works in Explorer does not work in TC. The average user does not differentiate between/ take into account tech details like 32 and 64 bit redirection matters...

So I hope Christian reconsiders his policies on this issue.

Regards,
Lee

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Post by *MVV »

SysNative folder is available from 32-bit applications only. If you open any standard 32-bit Windows application, it will be able to see contents of this folder. It is funny that you may create a folder named e.g. SySnAtIvE (in 64-bit program) and both TC and Explorer will display it, but TC will show real System32 when you enter it.

LeeBinder, you should note that any 32-bit application (including batch files) that is started from TC uses redirection. So, it may confuse users if TC will show real System32 folder but batch file or other program will work with redirected one. So it is better to leave theese things as is.

Usually I create a junction named System64 that points to System32 folder - this allows to see true 64-bit system folder via my junction. And it is not a problem at all for me to enter SysNative or System64 folder when I need to get to system folder.

Actually there is a more serious problem with 32-bit file managers. Suppose that you have reg-file that uses e.g. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software key. It is not obvious that double-clicking that file in 32-bit and 64-bit program will do different things: 32-bit regedit will put entries from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow3264Node key! And, any 32-bit program will see Software\Wow3264Node key instead of Software. Dumb Windows feature.

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Post by *LeeBinder »

MVV wrote:SysNative folder is available from 32-bit applications only.
ah, OK, makes (kinda) sense ..
MVV wrote:If you open any standard 32-bit Windows application, it will be able to see contents of this folder. It is funny that you may create a folder named e.g. SySnAtIvE (in 64-bit program) and both TC and Explorer will display it, but TC will show real System32 when you enter it.
eek
MVV wrote:LeeBinder, you should note that any 32-bit application (including batch files) that is started from TC uses redirection. So, it may confuse users if TC will show real System32 folder but batch file or other program will work with redirected one. So it is better to leave theese things as is.
I disagree. Reason: a user is a user (who clicks and looks), and a batch file is simply a file that runs and executes commands. Lumping these two together in this context does not seem to make sense.
MVV wrote:Usually I create a junction named System64 that points to System32 folder
sorry but yaix .. just reading that makes my hair stand up .. by doing so you emulate and enforce the BS MS has created. It's like the BS that - in 64 - Program Files (which in 32 bit is - daah - Program Files) is now 64 bit Program Files, and Program Files is Program Files (x86) .. geez! The other way around would have made (common) sense. The first thing I always do in 64 bit Win7 systems via reg files is change ti

Program Files (x64)
and
Program Files (x86)
+ Common Files accordingly.

I like things straight and logical, u know?
MVV wrote: - this allows to see true 64-bit system folder via my junction.
hm? When clicking onto SysWOW64, one ALWAYS gets to SysWOW64, from a 32 AND a 64 bit file manager, so no need for such junction in the first place, I dare say. Unless one feels that SysWOW64 is a stupid name (which it is), and, for the sake of analogy, they should simply have labeled that folder System64 to begin with. But as we know, MS and straight thinking/ acting is an oxymoron ...
MVV wrote:And it is not a problem at all for me to enter SysNative or System64 folder when I need to get to system folder.
matter of taste. I like my System32 Symlink since it's right next to the (what I call bogus) System32 folder in a 32 bit file manager (thanks to MS).
MVV wrote:Actually there is a more serious problem with 32-bit file managers. Suppose that you have reg-file that uses e.g. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software key. It is not obvious that double-clicking that file in 32-bit and 64-bit program will do different things: 32-bit regedit will put entries from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow3264Node key! And, any 32-bit program will see Software\Wow3264Node key instead of Software. Dumb Windows feature.
I totally agree, and very much appreciated that you point that out here. This kinda stuff made me run *crazy* in the beginning. The trick is to, in a 32 bit file manager, right click reg keys that need to go into the 64 bit part of the registry, x64, open with, regedit.

Gosh, how much easier in Mac OS .....

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HolgerK
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Post by *HolgerK »

Unless one feels that SysWOW64 is a stupid name (which it is), and, for the sake of analogy, they should simply have labeled that folder System64 to begin with.
Actually SysWOW64 holds the 32Bit system files, while (seen from a 64Bit Process) System32 holds the 64Bit system files.
Naming this folder System64 may have some logic (from MS point of view) but is more or less confusing for a user.

Regards
Holger

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Post by *LeeBinder »

HolgerK wrote:
Unless one feels that SysWOW64 is a stupid name (which it is), and, for the sake of analogy, they should simply have labeled that folder System64 to begin with.
Actually SysWOW64 holds the 32Bit system files, while (seen from a 64Bit Process) System32 holds the 64Bit system files.
Naming this folder System64 may have some logic (from MS point of view) but is more or less confusing for a user.

Regards
Holger
u gotta be kidding .. this would be absolutely sick, mentally .. honestly .. if this is true then I need to call MS and have them somebody come by to clean up the puke around this Laptop with a Windows 7 64 partition on it (amongst many others) ..

I really wish everybody'd switch to OS X or Linux. The amount of mental retardedness blowing from Redmond absolutely blows my mind - and really too effin bad I need to support this s**t. (just look at the fact that we're counting 2012, and those idiots are still using DOS C:\ as the path BASIS for their "most advanced OS" to work at all - instead access via SSIDs and volume labels like everybody else .. huge yaiix .. :( )

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