Comments about TCmd's configuration files (INIs)

[wanderer]

Dear everyone (and especially Christian)

Since there has been a rather serious ini-related discussion under the "I need your help for tabbed browsing!" thread, i decided to start a new thread in order to gather opinions from all users on how they see things. I hope this helps Christian decide what path to follow on this matter because judging from all the opinions expressed, i believe many users would like to see TCmd using INIs differently.

First of all i'd like to say that folder "C:\Documents and Settings\<USER>" may not be the best way to store user ini files. Probably the best folder for that would be "C:\Documents and Settings\<USER>\Application Data\TotalCmd". I assume that's why MS's people have created the "Application Data" folder in the first place. Personally, I have manually created such a folder on my PC because TC is not used only by me. I have placed the toolbars in it so that each user can have their own look of TCmd.

Having said that, here is my opinion on the matter. During the installation, the user should be asked all the things he is being asked now. When he finishes selecting options, the installation should do what it does now (install the program) and then it should create a default ini file (probably under C:\Program Files\TotalCmd, please no more C:\TotalCmd, no one is using DOS any more***). This ini should contain the following parameters:

1. All the options the user selected through the installation so when he runs another installation in order to upgrade TCmd, the installation program will not ask all the questions again. Instead it will give the user the ability to press either a <NEXT> button to go through all the questions again if he wishes, or press a <FINISH> button in order to start the process immediatelly using the default values from the previous installation.

2. Default values for all available TC options. The user could change them through a "Default Options" menu, or perhaps could change them only by hand or from an external utility with a password. This could be done in order to give "Administrative rights" to a single user, in case TCmd is installed on a networked environment.


If the user has stated he wishes to store the inis under "Documents and Settings", the program should create a "C:\Documents and Settings\<USER>\Application Data\TotalCmd" folder and store user inis and the user's toolbars under it and generally everything else that could be considererd user-dependent in the future. If the user chooses "Windows Directory", only the inis should be stored there (which of course will be common for all users but both default and user will have to exist for homogeneity reasons) and toolbars and everything else should be placed in a respective folder under the program directory (i.e. "Toolbars").

The user ini could contain all available TCmd settings in it but with a value of "<default>", denoting that the user has not changed a setting's value and that TCmd should obtain the value of this setting from the default ini file. Of course if a value exists in user.ini, TCmd will use that.

I don't know if that covers every opinion i saw out there but if anyone thinks something should be different, please say it. Christian, of course it's up to you to decide how things should work inside TCmd. All i can say is that if you decide to implement the "default.ini" and "user.ini" idea, i'm willing to develop an external application that would set the default and the user options (probably i won't be the only one ) in order to help.

The whole ini thing is not an extremely important issue (like the tabs) but IMHO it is important and eventually it should be seriously examined.

***no one is using DOS any more: actually i said that as a kind of joke because i know companies that are still using DOS applications (logistics mostly) but there is a serious question here: many things in TCmd (like the C:\TotalCmd path) exist for compatibility with the 16bit version. The big question is are there still users out there using the 16bit version? I'm very curious about it.

[Hacker]

The big question is are there still users out there using the 16bit version?

Yes there are, more than I had thought. I once made a poll about this.

Roman

[Dominik]

hmm... i don't like Documents & Settings folder,same as Program files folder.

i'd keep default intsallation path as X:\Totalcmd and it would be better to use some kind of profiles.Something like X:\Totalcmd\Profiles\
User1
User2
User3

and ini files +bar in these folders.

[wanderer]

The big question is are there still users out there using the 16bit version?

Yes there are, more than I had thought. I once made a poll about this.

Roman

Wow. Who would have thought of that. I understand people using DOS, so many programs exist after all, but Windows 3.x? Anyway, thanx for the answer.

[wanderer]

hmm... i don't like Documents & Settings folder,same as Program files folder.

i'd keep default intsallation path as X:\Totalcmd and it would be better to use some kind of profiles.Something like X:\Totalcmd\Profiles\
User1
User2
User3

and ini files +bar in these folders.

Wherever MS goes, they try to establish some standard ways to do things. They are not always choosing the best way but they do try to establish and keep the standards. That's one thing i have to admit is good about MS. I realy believe all Windows apps should follow those standards. I assume that's why Christian is using "Documents & Settings" and not any other dir and that's why i pointed out that IMO he is using the wrong dir. Now, if you wish to use a "X:\Totalcmd\Profiles" dir, nobody is stopping you. Christian has forseen that, that's why he has the "User-defined directory" option for the INIs in the installation.

[Dominik]

good post

[norfie]

[VadiMGP]

I think two files is good enough. One common file and one file for every user. File location is not so important except Windows directory. In my opinion none of the program information should be stored in the system directory untill program is component of OS!
Some settings from default file (if exists) should take precedence over settings from user .ini file for securuty reason. For example, drive or network accesibility.

What do you think about storing TC settings in the registry?

PS

The big question is are there still users out there using the 16bit version?

Yes there are, more than I had thought. I once made a poll about this.

Roman

What is the reason? I myself use DOS almost everyday (and it seems to be continued for years ), but 16-bit TC? Unbelievable!

[Aezay]

What do you think about storing TC settings in the registry?

Bad idea!
I hate programs that saves their settings to the registry, this means that I lose all settings every time Windows needs a reinstall. When the settings are saved to an ini file or some other config file, its easier to back up.

Btw. does anyone use multiple users accounts under Windows? I dont, and I dont know anyone who does. IMO, multiple user accounts are only useful for servers.

[pdavit]

There is an advantage you know by having TC stored directly over the root of your hard drive. It’s not just a 16bit carried over convention. You get speed improvements by having an application stored in as few as possible sub-directories. That’s not a philosophical approach it’s reality based on the way magnetic media access file structures.

Of course, you can easily ask “is that speed advantage measurable?” Maybe not on the first look. But my TC tree structure is quite complex with all these complement tools, TC related tools, plug-ins etc and I’m having second thoughts.

I would like separate ini files also. One with all the values of TC itself and one with values created as the use of TC unfolds.

As far as the Documents & Settings folders is concerned we can already support different user configurations but with a "side-approach". You can created separate batch files visible on the Start menu of each individual user copy the initial ini file into each of the users’ directory and use the batch files to run TC passing as a parameter the path location of the individual ini files. Of course this is time consuming, not very flexible and not every user has the know how to make it happen! I bet though that 95% of TC users are single users (that’s not a marital status comment ), 4% have bought grouped licenses but one copy of TC goes for each user and only 1% needs to provide access to TC with different settings let’s say for his little sister!

[VadiMGP]

2Aezay Of course is matter of taste, but registry more powerful and flexible tool then .ini file.
Registry backup is the same as any other file backup and uou can do it in binary or text form.
But what i hate is 24 .ini files in my WINCMD directory. I don't think backup of registry much more complicatd then backup of tens files.

2pdavit Just small remark.

...it’s reality based on the way magnetic media access file structures.

It was correct several years ago. But today, after LBA and especially NTFS, there no any correlation between logical and physical file location.

[apanjocko]

i have to say somthing here
ONE of the MAIN reasons i use TC is that you DON'T have to _install_ it to make it work.

that is, you can have it on D: and format C:, and when windows is reinstalled you are all agically set up already.

for this reason i also use Opera (with M2 as mail) and LiteStep as shell.

please don't change this and i'll be happy happy forever happy!

(this implys the registry is a very bad thing, and i actually doubt ghisler (smart) actually listen to the people sugesting this (dumb, sort of )

[djk]

2all above

IMO, it's really important topic.

Dos rulez, TC too (32-bit)

Registry - NO PLEASE !!! NO !!!
But if it would become a fact one day, Christian please, add an option to export ALL current seettings to file and import from file in new installation

Multiuser configuration. I use WinXP Pro and I've got several profiles on it, for me, my wife, my son and my brother-in-law. All of them have different rights so it's great that it's possible to have different ini location. If I put them to TC\Profiles\user1... I would have to grant additional rights to the subdirectories - now I don't have to do it, it's by default.

Default directory for TC installation - D:\totalcmd

Toolbars together with ini files - separate for every user - great idea !!!

apanjocko - I understand you

What else:

- I'd like all plugins ini file were saved in the same directory as wincmd.ini file, now they are in: totalcmd directory, plugin directory, windows directory, user directory... I hate it.

- fsplugin.ini, lsplugin.ini - the are really difficult to... edit. When I want to remove a configuration for any plugin I'm never sure which sections belong to it

- it would be nice to have a tool (or function in TC) for copying toolbar elements or ini parts ... form one user to another one. Fir example I use a lot of plugins and my toolbar is full of different buttons, my wife needs only default configuration but I'd like to copy some buttons and some plugins to her (but not all, only some selected). Now I have to do it manually and it's not comfortable.

I think it's not all but..... I dont't want to m\ake you bored

[Aezay]

i have to say somthing here
ONE of the MAIN reasons i use TC is that you DON'T have to _install_ it to make it work.

that is, you can have it on D: and format C:, and when windows is reinstalled you are all agically set up already.

for this reason i also use Opera (with M2 as mail) and LiteStep as shell.

please don't change this and i'll be happy happy forever happy!

(this implys the registry is a very bad thing, and i actually doubt ghisler (smart) actually listen to the people sugesting this (dumb, sort of )

This is exactly my point, im glad im not alone

I have TotalCmd installed under F:\Programs\TotalCmd (ini files saved under program dir) and I only install it when a new version is released. A couple of weeks ago I bought a new motherboard, but Windows XP gave me a blue screen and didnt want to start up, because it apperently couldnt handle a motherboard change.
I pretty much just formatted my C: drive and installed Windows again, and I didnt have to backup my TC configuration. If the settings was saved in the registry, it would have been much more complicated.

[Dominik]

same here,all my programs in E:\Programs...
i just hate program files and registry!