Automating and enhancing TC setup to use default values

[wanderer]

It would be great if at least the "global INI" idea was implemented but i wouldn't count on it too much. I'm guessing it will not be that easy to implement if you take into account the "redirection" feature too. It seems complex at first sight but only Christian can verify if it's easy or not.

[Phred]

Well, not directly but you can actually avoid that by copying the INI file in a standard location (i.e. %AppData%\Ghisler) before executing the installer. Then, you just have to click on "Update previous installation". That is another workaround though...

Of course this workaround presupposes that the user-installer has administrative rights to copy an ini file to, say, c:\Users\[user]\AppData\Roaming\GHISLER\ - through, say, having TC configured with 'Show hidden/system files (for experts only)' in Display options.

The 'Show hidden files, folders and drives' radio-button in Windows Explorer's 'Folder options', 'View', 'Advanced settings' doesn't reveal AppData.., in Windows 7.

I'm assuming that like all safe-hex computer users the user is not logged in as an administrator, nor running TC with elevated rights in day-to-day usage.

The conclusion is that preparing the install with a default ini is becoming a fair bit of trouble. How good would it be to have a 'master (user) manifest' beside the (re)install exe..?

[white]

1. TC's installation EXE program should check the current directory for a TCDefaults.ini file (or something like that) which will contain the "[auto]" section that currently exists in the Install.inf file inside the EXE. Perhaps it could also check the registry (for those who don't like INIs - if there is anyone). If this file is found, it will perform an automatic no-questions-asked installation based on the installation defaults specified in it. Install.inf may still contain an "[auto]" section but if the TCDefaults.ini is found in the current dir, its default values will be the ones used during the installation (or pehaps the two could be merged in memory to avoid having mising values in TCDefaults.ini affect TC's installation).

If anything like this ever gets implemented I suggest TC's installation program does not check the current directory for a TCDefaults.ini file (or something like that). I suggest for TC's installation program to accept a command line parameter to specify a file containing custom installation directives.

[Phred]

Mr white, I believe we have to keep in mind the 'ordinary user' in our recommendations here. Yes, we're pushing the borders with what we're proposing, but establishing personal preferences before installing a program shouldn't be beyond the capacity of large numbers of people.

I'm thinking that a user could run a preliminary program before installing TC anew, but getting to somewhere where she could add command-line switches is straining it somewhat, IMO. Running an exe within the current user context/desktop/logon should be easy enough, as long as it doesn't venture into 'admin territory'. Addressing \Users\[current-user]\AppData\Local\Ghisler\ is fine.

[BTW, in my discussion, above, about admin rights for access to \Users\[current-user]\AppData\... etc - I believe I'm wrong there.
[Nevertheless, I don't think we can presume that ordinary users can see inside hidden folders. ]

[white]

I'm thinking that a user could run a preliminary program before installing TC anew, but getting to somewhere where she could add command-line switches is straining it somewhat, IMO.

I think you misunderstood. I merely suggested that TC's installation program should not look for custom installation directives automatically, but should only do so when instructed explicitly by the user by means of one command line switch.

[Phred]

No, white, I understood.

My question is - how do you see an unsophisticated user executing/initiating TCSetup.exe with a command-line switch?
That's a user logged on with standard permissions, too, incidentally. (It shouldn't matter too much, of course, since the user will need to provide admin permission - but just in case..)

Would a user run the TCSetup -switch command from TC's command line panel? No - TC may not be installed yet.
Would she generate a Command Prompt window from c:\Users\Public\Downloads\Archives\File Management\ and then use Shift+Right-click on the TotalCommander\ folder, then choose 'Command Prompt from here'? - that's presuming a lot of knowledge.
Would she generate a Command Prompt from the Start menu and then navigate to c:\Users\Public\Downloads\Archives\File Management\TotalCommander\ ? That's a lot of skill required.

I see a user running a TCDefaults exe that will modify TCSetup's settings, then running TCSetup now with all the defaults she always likes.


I suppose I should expand the idea: how would a user establish the configuration defaults first?
I expect the Options control would appear when running TCDefaults.exe, and then there would be a 'Save Configuration' button that would write to a reference file and into a TCSetup.exe's 'manifest', or whatever holds the current defaults.

Next would be a popup list window of all the possible special ini additions, with tick-boxes and a save button for writing to a setup config reference file - or into the TCSetup.exe, once again..

[wanderer]

I see a user running a TCDefaults exe that will modify TCSetup's settings, then running TCSetup now with all the defaults she always likes.

Do you really think unsophisticated users will care about the concept "TC's default settings"? They will probably just run the program and start using it if they like it.

IMO this discussion applies to users that install TC in more than one computer (usually periodically) from scratch and wish to have certain default settings just to make their lives easier. Such a user hardly qualifies as unsophisticated. For instance, how about a company admin who wishes to install TC in many computers? Where would TCDefaults.exe store the settings and how TC's installation would find them? It seems the best solution would be to have a file (ini probably) in the same folder with TC (somewhere in a server) so in that case why have a separate TCDefaults.exe? Just alter the ini manually or through TC itself.

[white]

2Phred
Wanderer had suggested for TC's install program to search in the current folder for a TCDefaults.ini file containing custom installation directives. I commented on his proposal. I think the install program should only use custom installation directives when explicitly told so.

I feel that suggesting a user friendly install program with advanced options is something completely different. Such suggestion does not exclude the other suggestions.

My question is - how do you see an unsophisticated user executing/initiating TCSetup.exe with a command-line switch?

I don't. I don't consider creating custom installation directives to be something for the average user.

[Phred]

Yes, indeed, wanderer, this kind of operation would apply to company admins, but there's a continuum, too.

At some point users would be too unsophisticated to want to bother with a pre-configuration, but the other side of that point I see many plain users who wouldn't want to reconfigure TC over and over again. All the way along to company admins..
So, yes, I see some ordinary users wanting to do this.

I see TCDefaults.exe lying in the same 'box' as where you would keep all your installation downloads; I gave an example folder in my last post. It would write, I imagine, straight into TCSetup.exe, as per my description. It would read the TCDefaults.cfg file I save, accommodating any new settings Christian may introduce in future versions, update the TCDefaults.cfg and write them straight into the new TCSetup.exe's 'manifest'. TCSetup.exe and TCDefaults.exe would come as a pair inside TCmdr799.zip.

Whether it would be easier to construct such a utility or to re-write TCSetup.exe so that it would read a 'defaults ini', I don't know - but I'm suggesting the principle.

Where you suggest 'Just alter the ini manually or through TC itself' - that's little better than what we have now, and TC isn't known exactly for its 'user affinity' in the PC-osphere, is it?

By what means would you set up your TCDefaults.ini ? Let's not move to a server just yet.
Can I presume we're dismissing the idea of a command-line switch? (If not, then I refer you to my questions about how plain users invoke one in my previous post.)

In summary: set up TC defaults in a GUI before installation and use them forever more. Set up; install.

[wanderer]

By what means would you set up your TCDefaults.ini ?

Either directly (text editor) or through TC itself. The configuration dialog could be enhanced to "Select certain params and save them as default in a separate ini/cfg" but since there are many ini config options that do not appear in TC's config dialog, it would probably be better to directly edit the file. Several fine external config utilities already exist (i.e. UltraTC editors) but they have to be continuously maintained by their developers which is not easy most of the time.

Can I presume we're dismissing the idea of a command-line switch?

I think it's superfluous. If the file exists in the same folder as TC, use it. If not...

[Balderstrom]

Wouldn't you just copy the ini file you have customized to where you want it to be after the install. A couple lines of a batch script could do so for any number of end-user profiles.

Here's Notepad2's ini file that goes into the Program directory -- if you want the ini to be located in the users AppData folder.

Code: Select all

[Notepad2]
Notepad2.ini=%APPDATA%\NotePad2\Notepad2.ini

No registry check required.

[wanderer]

Wouldn't you just copy the ini file you have customized to where you want it to be after the install. A couple lines of a batch script could do so for any number of end-user profiles.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. If a user already has TC in his PC and you try to execute an upgrade, you wouldn't want to replace his INI but you may wish to "insert" into it a default value for a new INI setting. You need an exe for that. It would be great if TC's installation process could handle this...

[Balderstrom]

Ah yes, you'd need to use AHK or something of the sort to modify an pre-existing ini.