What's the deal with Win7 start menu shortcuts

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commodore
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What's the deal with Win7 start menu shortcuts

Post by *commodore »

How come in Win7 certain start menu shortcuts report "File not found" if run from within TC, but run normally from either the Start menu or from an "explorer/folder" open from TC at that start menu location?
(And then there are some that are not displayed in regular explorer/folder view, but can be seen in TC, e.g. displayswitch.lnk under All users / Accessories, as well as others.)
To top it all -- I was moving around some start menu items using TC the other day, and some of the shortcuts lost their icons, so I had to "re-align" them manually.

I'm getting the feeling that MS really made a maze of endless junctions and symbolic links and redirects in the file system with Win7 64-bit. :roll:
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Post by *petermad »

I'm getting the feeling that MS really made a maze of endless junctions and symbolic links and redirects in the file system with Win7 64-bi
That is one reason - another one is Win 7 64bit's redirection of the system32 folder.

Take for example the program msconfig.exe - you can run it from Windows Start -> Run by typing c:\windows\system32\msconfig.exe but you can not run it the same way from TC's command line out of the box.

To be able to run msconfig.exe from TC, you have to either:

1. Disable system32 folder redirection by running the cm_SwitchX64Redirection (run it once more to enable it again) - you can make an item for it in your Start menu to see the state (or check the x64DisableRedirection parameter in your wincmd.ini file).

2. If you dont want to disable redirection of the system32 folder (which is the recommended setting), then you have to start TC as Administrator and then run this command in stead: c:\windows\sysnative\msconfig.exe
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Post by *commodore »

So these particular issues are only relevant to 64-bit Windows, whereas on a 32-bit Win7 it would be more or less "as before"?

I'm still getting used to 7, and missing some of the straightforward things that were self-evident in XP. By making some things more "user-friendly" (to new or non-power users), they obscured them to the rest of us. ;)

Other than that, where are Libraries and (non-IE) Favorites and Sticky Notes physically located? Can they be accessed with TC at all?
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Post by *ghisler(Author) »

You should change the links instead of using cm_SwitchX64Redirection. Just change the part \system32\ to \sysnative\ and it should work in most cases.
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Post by *3ICE »

Editing file shortcuts created by windows is not recommended.

I did what you suggested and now the start menu shurtcuts don't work. Nothing useful happens if I click on them and their icons are defaulted.

Some of the shortcuts affected:
Snipping tool
Sound recorder
Sticky notes
Memory diagnostics tool
Microsoft drive optimizer

Screenshot:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/Total-Commander--ProgramData-Start-menu-shortcuts-dont-work-unless-changing-them-from-System32-to-Sysnative--But-then-Windows-own-start-menu-breaks.png

The files are in Sysnative but shortcuts to them from the start menu don't work. Switching back to System32 for now.
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Post by *Stance »

Please edit the part in the path where it says "\system32" to "\sysnative".
Like in the example given in the 2nd reply:
petermad wrote:
2. If you dont want to disable redirection of the system32 folder (which is the recommended setting), then you have to start TC as Administrator and then run this command in stead: c:\windows\sysnative\msconfig.exe
You must not rename the System32 directory.
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Post by *3ICE »

Thank you for your response. Sadly, it wasn't able to help.

Changing the shortcut path is what broke the shortcuts in the first place.

I don't think you can even rename the System32 directory. But I'm not going to try to confirm my suspicion. It's too risky.
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Post by *petermad »

23ICE
Editing file shortcuts created by windows is not recommended.

I did what you suggested and now the start menu shurtcuts don't work. Nothing useful happens if I click on them and their icons are defaulted.
I think you have misunderstood somthing here. It is not the shortcuts made by Windows (for example in Windows Start menu and Desktop) that you should change. It is the path in links used in TC's Start Menu or TC's Button Bar you should change. Windows does not know Sysnative - it is a virtual name that 32bit TC uses under 64 bit Windows to give you access to to the "real" System32 folder in stead of the redirected SysWOW64 folder
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Post by *3ICE »

Hi,

Yes, I think I'm understanding this topic less and less as it develops.
Maybe I can explain better in pictures so we know certainly that we are talking about the same thing...

This is a shortcut that came with the default windows install - I expect it to work. Everywhere.:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/1-shortcut-that-came-with-the-default-windows-install.jpg

This is the same shortcut in my start menu - Notice it has a working icon.:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/2-same-shortcut-in-my-start-menu.jpg

It opens if I click on it:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/3-works.jpg

This is Total Commander unable to open the same shortcut - Notice the icon as well... Broken.:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/4-Total-Commander-unable-to-open-the-same-shortcut.jpg

This is the same shortcut as I am about to change System32 to Sysnative - To make it "fixed" for TC:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/5-fixed-shortcut-as-I-am-about-to-change-System32-to-Sysnative.jpg

Total Commander "sees" it properly all right, notice the new shiny icon. - It even opens correctly:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/6-Total-Commander-sees-it-right.jpg

But now my start menu is broken... No icon, target application is not opening:
Image: http://static.3ice.hu/images/ghisler.ch-p272055/7-But-now-my-start-menu-is-broken--No-icon-target-application-is-not-opening.jpg

Sincerely,
Daniel "3ICE" Berezvai
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Post by *petermad »

23ICE

Judging from your images and description - yes you have misunderstood it. DON'T edit *.lnk files to replace system32 with sysnative.

If you want to be able to run *.lnk files that contain paths to system32 I recommend that you install 64bit TC or the mixed 32bit and 64bit version.

A little explanation:
If you are running TC 32bit (or ANY 32bit application) it does not see the real c:\windows\system32 directory because Windows replaces c:\windows\system32 with c:\windows\syswow64.

The name c:\windows\syswow64 is quite misleading because it holds the 32 bit versions of the files c:\windows\system32 whereas c:\windows\system32 holds the 64bit versions.

Not all the files in the real c:\windows\system32 does also exist in c:\windows\syswow64, because they only exist in a 64bit version, so calling the missing files from any 32bit application will fail.

MdSched.exe is one of those files that only exist as 64bit, hence it does not exist in c:\windows\syswow64



BTW if you want easy access to the links in Windows 8's startmenu you could try my extended menu for TC: http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?t=33740

The version you need is http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/tc800_win8x86_eng.html
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Post by *3ICE »

Thank you, your post explained everything very well.
I have, but can't use 64bit TC, because most of my plugins are 32bit only. So I'll look into finding this fabled "mixed 32+64 bit version". I haven't heard about it before, hope it really does exist.

Edit: No dice, the 32+64 version runs as a plain old 32 bit version and has the same issue. It can't open most shortcuts that have System32 in the path.

Those custom menus you recommend are very nice, but they're far too much for my speed-oriented setup. Also, I don't want to use bulky menus, I am used to controlling everything with my keyboard. ALT + spamming down arrow is just too slow.
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Post by *petermad »

In order to run 64bit TC you have to run TOTALCMD64.EXE in stead of TOTALCMD.EXE
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Post by *3ICE »

Yeah that's quite obvious. But as I said before:
3ICE wrote:I have, but can't use 64bit TC, because most of my plugins are 32bit only.
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Post by *petermad »

Sorry for the obvious, but in order to run those links you referred for in the start you have to use TOTALCMD64.EXE then you can revert to TOTALCMD.EXE once you have run the links. That's the way Microsoft made it in their wisdom.

Most plugins have been transformed to 64bit by now, so maybe you could install all those in 64bit version and use 64bit TC regularily and 32bit TC when you need the plugins that is not yet transformed to 64bit - but off course that depends on what kind of plugins you have that isn'nt convereted to 64bit whether that's the way to go.
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Post by *nsp »

petermad wrote:Sorry for the obvious, but in order to run those links you referred for in the start you have to use TOTALCMD64.EXE then you can revert to TOTALCMD.EXE once you have run the links. That's the way Microsoft made it in their wisdom.
If you want to run those lnk file from totalcmd32 you should try to use 64bit cmd or any 64bit runner to launch it for you. (This will not solve your icon trouble !)

Cmd 64bit is accessible using "C:\Windows\Sysnative\cmd.exe".

You can launch using an additional button
or with an internal association or
ask a new feature to TC 32+64 to launch lnk file using 64bit wrapper on 64bit system...
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