It's time to release TC 9.0?

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Post by *Hacker » 2015-01-06, 16:47 UTC

Christian,
Well, I'd suggest creating a webpage where users could suggest features and vote on them so you would see which suggestion is most popular.
CintaNotes has something like that for instance. Other software developers use a similar concept.
I am sure there is some free software to create such a page.

Roman
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Post by *sky66 » 2015-01-06, 17:11 UTC

ghisler(Author) wrote: - Undo function: I haven't added it because it makes the user think that his files are safe - but they are not when he overwrites files!
Simple undo function is enough, just like Windows Explorer provides.
And may be we can set this function as an option, default = off.
If user try to enable the undo function, it will display some message.
eg. [Some operations can't be undone, such as overwrites files...]

Lefteous wrote:Some thoughts on the visual stuff.
Windows style "file, directory and disk icons": They are copyright by MS, I can't just steal them. Loading them dynamically has the problem that they are different between systems, and may not look good with the other icons.
Yes using them statically could be a copright issue. I don't really see the problem in loading them dynamically though. Of course some users use custom system icons but talking about the _normal_ users - they don't customize their system icons. So it should be straightforward to optimize the appearance for the common case. You could even create a fallback case where you check for changed system icons and then go back to the old behavior.
For special states use overlays instead of full icons and use a ghost-like appearance.

Refer to 7-Zip File Manager(7zFM.exe), it using Windows style "file, directory and disk icons", this suggestion is for visual consistency.
Windows Explorer "rectangular region selection" - this is not supported by a Listbox, where clicking ANYWHERE on the line clicks on the file. In Explorer, you have to click on the file name only
In Explorer there is also full row selection mode which is default since a few windows versions. Anyway in both modes the user has a hard time figuring out where to start a dragging or selection operation.
So the basic problem is: 2 mouse buttons but three functions (dragging, selecting and context menu). I'm not aware of any good solutions.
The rectangle is just a visual assistance especially if you have multiple columns.
This will be useful when we need to select multiple files, but don't want to press Shift. (busy, lazy, or tired...)

In Win7 Explorer, "full row selection" & "rectangular region selection" are coexist without conflict.
When clicking ANYWHERE on the line = "full row selection"
When clicking ANYWHERE and dragging = "rectangular region selection"

BTW, 7-Zip File Manager seems have another solution: an option in the Settings Page.
If checked "Full row select" = "full row selection"
If unchecked "Full row select" = "rectangular region selection"

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Post by *Sob » 2015-01-06, 17:22 UTC

About the Windows 95 look, this little misunderstanding seems to be my fault, I guess I did not write it right. I personally like that look (and use it in Windows 7 in form of Classic theme) and I'm very happy that TC tries to use native controls/API. Thanks to that, it looks good in my system, it looks good with Aero, it looks good in Win8 (a little less good, but it's the system's fault ;) and it will look good in future versions too. "Good" means like the part of the system it's running on and not sticking out. As Lefteous already described, better than I could, this could be improved even more.

If TC looks or more like feels "old" to me in any way (it mostly doesn't, perhaps just a little :), it's because of tiny details and unnecessary limitations that came mostly historically.

For purely visual things it's those squeezed elements that look like result of saving every pixel. There's no need for that anymore (and I definitely do not mean to follow current space wasting trend). It hurts more to see the same unnecessary pixel saving even with new stuff. Like that crazy name/speed switching trick in background copy dialog, instead of simply showing both. Yes, that would make the dialog higher about 10 pixels. Would that be a problem?

Or some other details, one example for all, the copy dialog. There might be a long target path and/or file name and it won't fit completely. If you want to see it, the logical thing to do would be to simply grab the border of dialog and make it a little wider. But you can't and the bad thing is that there's no good reason why not. Other windows can be resized, why not this one? I get it, that dialog was created many years ago, it worked and it was never too big inconvenience to make people complain.
But it's these tiny features that you can use without even thinking about then, that make programs better. It's like dragging buttons on taskbar. I got used to that without thinking about it at all, it just felt natural to be able to do that. Only doing something in WinXP from time to me made me realize that it wasn't there all the time.

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Post by *Balderstrom » 2015-01-07, 05:57 UTC

Lefteous wrote:
small suggestions which all require a few days of work, but would bring almost nothing for most users.
Are there no suggestions or ideas which would result in real advantages for must users?

What do other users think? What are main problems in TC for most users?
Not most, I imagine. But I think I've complained about TC x64's control-class names and the inability to write Scripts that can be used equally by 32bit and 64bit TC. After 3+ years now though, I've given up that hope.
*BLINK* TC9 Added WM_COPYDATA and WM_USER queries for scripting.

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Post by *Lefteous » 2015-01-07, 09:01 UTC

2sky66
In Win7 Explorer, "full row selection" & "rectangular region selection" are coexist without conflict.
When clicking ANYWHERE on the line = "full row selection"
When clicking ANYWHERE and dragging = "rectangular region selection"
I guess you might have missed a little detail. This is a two-step operation in Explorer. Dragging objects starts only immediately when dragging starts over a single object - otherwise multiselection dragging is started.

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Post by *fenix_productions » 2015-01-08, 09:21 UTC

If there are no "big features" I would say: go with all small ones.

I am observing XYplorer development with its release cycle. I can see a lot of small updates implemented almost daily and it feels alive.

TC – on the other hand – has long times between major releases which may feel as being dead. Waiting even longer will not remove this feeling.

It is also hard to believe that there are no suggestions for bigger stuff amongst "thousands" because I remember few of them being answered as "too complicated/time consuming to implement".

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but there should be even more on suggestions board (i.e. improve internal associations).
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Post by *ghisler(Author) » 2015-01-08, 11:42 UTC

Thanks for the new suggestions! I think that I will need a professional designer to redesign the user interface layout...
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Post by *Sob » 2015-01-08, 16:31 UTC

I wholeheartedly hope that I did not do something really bad here (not that I would overestimate my influence, more like butterfly effect). For the record, my ideas were always a little touch up here and there, polish things up, make the program fit to (any) OS as much as possible, etc.
It may be just me, but I read "redesign" and see scary images of this "modern" stuff where designers went wild without regard for anything else except their twisted imagination. If TC ended up looking like, say, latest Office, I would hate myself forever for ever mentioning anything about UI.

:)

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Post by *Balderstrom » 2015-01-08, 19:25 UTC

Lefteous wrote:2sky66
In Win7 Explorer, "full row selection" & "rectangular region selection" are coexist without conflict.
When clicking ANYWHERE on the line = "full row selection"
When clicking ANYWHERE and dragging = "rectangular region selection"
I guess you might have missed a little detail. This is a two-step operation in Explorer. Dragging objects starts only immediately when dragging starts over a single object - otherwise multiselection dragging is started.
Not sure what you mean Lefteous. Multi-select is done by clicking on any column except for the filename tab. As well you can install QTTabBar: Custumizable Menus/ Commands, Integrate File Comparison, or a folder sync tool. A massive amount of options in the Config (including custom colors/etc etc). Then there's XYPlorer (although the drop-down menus are a disaster) as has been mentioned, or MultiCommander - both of those are updated constantly.

Oh an both of those have internal Scripting that exposes the internal API for ALL commands... commands that can use variables and input.
*BLINK* TC9 Added WM_COPYDATA and WM_USER queries for scripting.

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Post by *Lefteous » 2015-01-08, 20:19 UTC

2Sob
It may be just me, but I read "redesign" and see scary images of this "modern" stuff where designers went wild without regard for anything else except their twisted imagination. If TC ended up looking like, say, latest Office, I would hate myself forever for ever mentioning anything about UI.
Don't worry. I'm sure Christian manages to point a designer to the right direction.

2Balderstrom
Not sure what you mean Lefteous. Multi-select is done by clicking on any column except for the filename tab.
Well that's what I wrote in my first post. I think it's quite a strange construction to have different operations depending on the column where the mouse cursor hovers.

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Post by *Balderstrom » 2015-01-08, 20:35 UTC

It's consistent with how you select multiple items on the desktop - for the most part. And the drop-down arrow that QTabBar adds is pretty nice too: Click on the [↓] (at the end of the folder column), and get an expanded (selectable) menu of the folder contents.
*BLINK* TC9 Added WM_COPYDATA and WM_USER queries for scripting.

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Post by *Lefteous » 2015-01-09, 11:08 UTC

2Balderstrom
It's consistent with how you select multiple items on the desktop - for the most part
Yes it's really the same - beside it's not :P There are no columns on the desktop :shock:

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Post by *ghisler(Author) » 2015-01-09, 11:22 UTC

OK, for now I have added selection to "left mouse button selection mode" when the user clicks BEHIND the file name, and drags the mouse up or down. The selection works similar to dragging with the right mouse button in "right mouse button selection mode". I will not show a rectangle because the selection will not be rectangular (e.g. in brief mode).

Regarding the redesign, I will add an option to show the Explorer folder icons, and maybe add some extra whitespace to the left of icons, and make the column spacing larger by default. But I'm still not conviced to make a complete redesign - many people would hate that for sure. :(
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Post by *petermad » 2015-01-09, 11:32 UTC

many people would hate that for sure
Count me in there ;-)
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Post by *Hacker » 2015-01-09, 12:04 UTC

Christian,
I'm still not conviced to make a complete redesign - many people would hate that for sure.
Well, the question is what a redesign would entail. Lefteous usually has sound ideas regarding what's feasible, useful, practical and doable - worth considering.
Also, I am quite sure users wouldn't mind eg. being able to move / resize UI elements, eg. move the button bar to the sides of the screen, bottom, between the panels, or add additional bars in those places. Same goes for example for the drive buttons, folder tabs, etc.
I am not an expert on user experience (UI design) but I am sure if you talk to some people who are something useful would come out of it.

Roman
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