Filename sort order: Is there a char to put files after Z ?

[white]

Tried "~" yet?

[petermad]

Tried "~" yet?

Yes, comes before z with SortUpper=3

[chrizoo]

Great! thanks (edit: ... for the message on the first page. You guys have put me on the second page while I was still replying, laugh ...).

Ok, Petermad, so what does now correctly describe the SortUpper behaviour, your first or second quote here?

And is there a number for SortUpper so that :

Sort accented variants (äáüè etc.) like the standard letters they correspond to[/b], for example sort Ä like A (or at least before B!). But for the "rest" of the chars (by rest I mean all the special characters (=non-letters) like [ or # ), I would love to sort them "Strictly by numeric character code" (thanks philbo!). Is that combination possible ? (sorting strictly by numeric code is indeed the most logical way for non-letters, but for letters it's not helpful if "a" comes after "Z" ... )
If that is not possible, I would at least need one char (a single one would really be enough!), which comes after Z.

?

[petermad]

what does now correctly describe the SortUpper behaviour, your first or second quote

Well they are both correct, the supplement each other.

No, there is not a sortorder number that does what you are asking.

Sortupper 0 and 3 sorts accented variants (äáüè etc.) like the standard letters they correspond to. The difference is that numbers like 2 and 10 are sorted in that order when you choose sortupper=3 but as 10 and 2 with sortupper=0

Sortupper 1 and 2 sorts by character code, hence accented variants are sorted in the end for themselves. The difference is that numbers like 2 and 10 are sorted in that order when you choose sortupper=2 but as 10 and 2 with sortupper=1.

I would at least need one char (a single one would really be enough!), which comes after Z.

Haven't found one yet that works in sortupper 0 or 3.

[Clo]

chrizoo

Hello !

…I'm afraid I don't really understand what you are talking about here ... ?? [headscratching]…

• Please, don't scratch too strongly, you could disturb some kind tenants

- ON THIS IMAGE you can see how the list is displayed (in French, because it's more confusing for newbies).
- The order of the choices on that list (1 —> 4 -I added in blue-) doesn't match the flags of the INI entry
at first glance when one reads the strings…
- So, whether we would have the digit of the flag (0 —> 3), the (new) user who is absolutely lost in that
could watch in the Help (or our Tutos) and see to which clear behaviour each “blah blah line” corresponds to.
- Since you like my “mummies” (not Egyptian), please give a glance to that I PROPOSED centuries ago
for these Options, instead of a drop-down list…

…BTW, do you watch the "dupes topic" ? I've given a bit of comments over there ... I hope Mr.Ghisler reads ...
And I really hope that your excellent suggestion gets implemented one day ... I mean you posted that years ago!!

• Yes, I watched that, indeed ! Thank you for these good words ! I've some other “mummies” in my pyramid,
for instance THIS TINY ONE to compare with THAT WE HAVE, and this BIGGER ONE which was so well supported
by members of the board (it was just an approach, but on the good way, I guess… Exists also in French).
“Fallen in the cabbages”, like we say in French…

…I would like to reiterate my question if there is webpage where all of the wincmd.ini settings are listed in one place ... …

• That's naturally listed in the Help, but since I guess you aren't a wet blanket, you can get them also as jollier
HERE ONLINE, or downloading the Tuto¦s from my Web page (see the [Web] board button below).

KR
Claude
Clo

[chrizoo]

Thanks for staying with me Petermad.

OK, this stuff is giving me serious headache ... I find it quite misleading if "When sorting files, put files starting with an underscore _ last" means in reality "Sort strictly by numeric character code". It's like telling your employee he has a day off when actually he is getting fired. The first assertion is still true, but only within a context nobody can possibly be expected to assume.

Further headscratching .... ok, I tried SortUpper=1 now, which is supposed to "Sort strictly by numeric character code", but the lower case "a" (ALT+97) comes before the upper case "Z" (ALT+90), and the lower "z" (ALT+122) goes after the "]" (ALT+93).

So it's not strictly by char code. I guess lower case letters are in fact treated as if they were upper case. But if in the SortUpper=1 is supposed to be a "STRICTLY by char code mode" but in fact turns out to be something like a sort-strictly-by-char-code-but-actually-not-so-strictly-because-make exceptions-for-regular-letters-MODE, why is there no mode that sorts according to char code except for regular and accented letters as opposed to only except for regular letters - a distinction TC DOES indeed make otherwise : 0+3 on the one side and 1+2 on the other side !

[HolgerK]

...I would at least need one char (a single one would really be enough!), which comes after Z.

ž <ALT+ 0158>

HTH,
Holger

[chrizoo]

chrizoo
Hello !
ON THIS IMAGE you can see how the list is displayed (in French, because it's more confusing for newbies).

Don't be so mean to the newbies, Clo! Not only do they have a hard time given that they are newbies, but you even use French images so that it's "more confusing for newbies" .... poors newbies ...

No but seriously (for a change) you got me confused as well a bit. Not with the French but with the numbers ... it's complicated enough already, why didn't you just use 0-3 so that it would correspond to the SortUpper flags ? What the hell does 1-4 correspond to now ... ???

- The order of the choices on that list (1 —> 4 -I added in blue-) doesn't match the flags of the INI entry
at first glance when one reads the strings…

...so, but on second glance ... they do or don't !?

... we would have the digit of the flag (0—>3), the (new) user who is absolutely lost could watch in the Help (or our Tutos) and see to which clear behaviour each “blah blah line” corresponds to. Since you like my “mummies” (not Egyptian), please give a glance to that I PROPOSED centuries ago for these Options, instead of a drop-down list…

Wow...as always, I fully second your motion! You know what's funny? Sometimes there are things that could be done better within TC and I wonder how and find it quite a clout(?) (un casse-tête quoi...). And then when I see your images, I think: "That's so obvious!! Why didn't I think of that myself!" And more importantly: "Why hasn't that been implemented AGES AGO !???"

…BTW, do you watch the "dupes topic" ? I've given a bit of comments over there ... I hope Mr.Ghisler reads ...
And I really hope that your excellent suggestion gets implemented one day ... I mean you posted that years ago!!

Yes, I watched that, indeed !

watched or watch ? You know, I need your help over there to either get things changed (for the better ). Or hear any convincing counter-arguments at least...

Thank you for these good words ! I've some other “mummies” in my pyramid, for instance THIS TINY ONE to compare with THAT WE HAVE, and this BIGGER ONE which was so well supported
by members of the board (it was just an approach, but on the good way, I guess…

Sorry, I don't quite get it. I see there is a better visual representation of the first image as compared to the 2nd one, but what is it for. And while I can see that the third image offers a different graphical solution for packing files, what is it that your interface can make any better than the existing solution? And what are the red and green arrows for?

Exists also in French).
“Fallen in the cabbages”, like we say in French…

He,he, if we don't stop with our French images and proverbs, we likely get banned from the english Forum here ... fortunately you are a Mod ...
Quoique ... at least you say you are ... but then, are you somehow at odds with Mr. Ghisler, or what is there to explain that when one of only three mods takes some considerable amount of time, enthusiasm and idealism and turns them into a solution including screenshot, he does not even get a reply by the site owner ?

PS: Thanks for the help links!

[chrizoo]

...I would at least need one char (a single one would really be enough!), which comes after Z.

ž <ALT+ 0158>
HTH,Holger

Wow, that works, thanks a lot!
I tried everything from ALT+0 to ALT+255, but did not put leading zeros. I did not know, that this changes anything! How come?

But when I enter ALT+158 inside TC, I get a upper case "P", so I guess that ALT+0158 is not part of the ANSI charset any more, right? Actually I wanted to avoid any characters in my files that are not part of the first 256 used for ANSI in order to avoid file system problems ...

[Clo]

2chrizoo

Again…

• The sort section on my old pic was disliked by the vox populi when I showed it on the beta-tests forum…
Anyway, it's obsolete now, but I persist to think that the principle is good (radio-buttons).

• The two small images show how a pressed (bistable) button looks in the button-bar, and how it could
(more visible… Just two black lines to add…).

• The “Pack dialogue” project was linked here already several times.
- About the arrows that tickle you, it's to scroll¦call the full list of plugins, since only the most used are shown
(and there are certainly other means to do that, it was just a proposal).

…But when I enter ALT+158 inside TC, I get a upper case "P", so I guess that ALT+0158 is not part of the ANSI charset any more, right? Actually I wanted to avoid any characters in my files that are not part of the first 256 used for ANSI in order to avoid file system problems ...

• Sorry, you are wrong : Alt+Code_number stands for the ASCII-DOS table,
you have to type always Alt+0_Code_number to get ANSI-Windows characters !
Hence, ALT+0158 IS part of the ANSI table !
- I tested ž as a dir. name here, but it's placed just before “Z” here, with a French Windows XP-Pro and SortUpper=3.
- Like petermad pointed out, it depends on the localized Windows you are using…
OT ::: BTW, there is a French section here, I'm the Mod.

 KR
Claude
Clo

[HolgerK]

... so I guess that ALT+0158 is not part of the ANSI charset any more, right? Actually I wanted to avoid any characters in my files that are not part of the first 256 used for ANSI in order to avoid file system problems ...

Don't worry. It's a Single Byte Character (SBC) with the hex value 0x9e

Windows 1252:
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.mspx

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_code#Complete_List

Regards,
Holger

[Gral]

...
BTW You really should update to TC 7. Don't hesitate - just install it over your old TC, it is fully backwards compatible.
...

I'ts not true !!!
WINCMD.INI from 6.51 may not work correct with 7.xx

[petermad]

2Gral

WINCMD.INI from 6.51 may not work correct with 7.xx

I am sure you are right, when you say so - I just can't think of what it could be - at least not anything crucial ?

[petermad]

2chrizoo

I guess lower case letters are in fact treated as if they were upper case.

Correct - as Windows' filesystem doesn't distinguish between upper and lower case.

IIRC the option 1: "When sorting files, put files starting with an underscore _ last" was added as a request for the underscore thing - way back, so that's why the emphasis was put on the underscore part in stead of the "by charcode" part, when it was put in the help file.

Obviously the help file should have been updated to correspond to the configuration dialog in TC 7, it's just one of those things that slipped through the testing, even though for instance Flint reported dozens of help-file inconsistencies during the beta-test.

[chrizoo]

I have a hard time catchin'up with all of your helpful comments, thanks so much guys! I'll follow up on the rest, but in the meanwhile a quick note ...

Sorry, you are wrong : Alt+Code_number stands for the ASCII-DOS table,
you have to type always Alt+0_Code_number to get ANSI-Windows characters !
Hence, ALT+0158 IS part of the ANSI table !

OK, I've learnt something here. So it depends on wether I put a leading zero or not if the char I'm getting is from the ANSI or ASCII table ?

When I went through all of the 256 characters, I used ALT+0 +1 +2 ... +10 +11 ... +255. So these were ASCII chars then ?

And what do I have to do to lookup chars from the ANSI table? Is this enough: ALT+00 +01 +02 ... +010 +011 ... +0255 (put exactly one leading zero everywhere)
or do I have to fill with zeros so that I'm always having 4 digits?
alt+0000 +0001 +0002 +....+0010 +0011 ..... +0255
I guess it's the first variant with only one leading zero, right ?


It's difficult by the way to get accurate information on the Internet as to what ASCII and ANSI refers to exactly, partly because it seems that the ASCII code has evolved over time and did in the beginning have 128 chars ...

ASCII typically refers to the lower 7-bits, or 128 characters of the DOS character set. ANSI usually refers to the whole 256-character set. The lower 128 characters or the ANSI set are the ASCII character set.

The difference between ANSI and ASCII:
ANSI is an 8-bit character set, while ASCII a 7-bit character set.
In Windows, an ASCII character takes 8 bits (the highest bit is zero).
So this doesn't really matter.

.... and was later extended to 256 chars, where ...

The largest difference between ASCII and ANSI are the upper 128 characters; the lower 128 characters are the same. The upper 128 characters are often referred to as extended characters. ASCII extended characters include line draw characters while ANSI extended characters include international characters and publishing symbols.

So is it right that both charsets now have 256 chars?
.