[TC 6.50-6.51] User interface could be improved

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Re: [TC 6.50] User interface could be improved

Post by *Sheepdog »

szlori wrote:The access-keys of dialogs don't depend on *.mnu files.
*.mnu files are for the menu.
That's right
szlori wrote: Access keys in dialogs depend on *.lng files, but for this there's no separate English one, at least I couldn't find one in my install dir.
That's right again. This way I meant "the english language file is built in". You can use an external language file, but if there is no language file at all TC uses that one compiled into the exe.


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Re: [TC 6.50] User interface could be improved

Post by *white »

Sheepdog wrote:
white wrote:What are you talking about? The apply button normally has access key A.
That I did not know (perhaps because I use german -language and there it is "Übernehmen").

But I think it would be a good idea to have a TC wide key (okay it's no access key) to apply the changes.
Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Fundamentals of Designing User Interaction > Input Basics

Also, avoid using a character usually assigned to a common function. For example, when you include an Apply button, reserve the "A" — or its localized equivalent — as the access key for that button.
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Post by *white »

I have been talking about fundamentals of designing user interaction. Fundamentals! The minimum constituents without which a thing or a system would not be what it is. I am not asking for something special to be implemented. I am asking for the basics which should be present in all windows programs. The suggestion that this should be implemented by users is a big laugh.

Bug in menu Show/Only Selected Files
Selecting this option does not change the check mark in the menu.
(Also in 6.03a)

Bad command description in menu Show/.....
After you used the command menu Show/Custom to show files of custom file type. This file type is shown in the menu Show for easy reselecting.
1) The command should have a description. Example:
Last custom right panel: *.zip
Last custom left panel: TC*.*
2) The file type shown should not be able to influence the access key, which it does if the file type contains a "&". (Solution: "&" should be replaced with "&&" when shown in menu)
3) I find it more logical if the location of the menu command is below the Custom command instead of above.

Lowercase instead of uppercase characters in menu
* Show/Custom columns mode
* Show/Custom columns mode/Configure custom columns)
* Show/Thumbnail view
* Mark/Save selection
* Mark/Save selection to file
* Mark/Load selection from file
* Files/Print/File list
* Files/Print/File list with subdirs
* Files/Print/File contents

Ellipsis used badly or not used in menu or buttons
* Mark/Save selection to file
* Mark/Load selection from file
* Save button in Search tab Load/Save
* Files/Calculate Occupied Space...
* Files/Properties...
* Files/Multi Rename Tool... (remove ellipsis or change description into "Multi Rename")
* Files/Edit comment... (debatable, remove ellipsis or change description into "Change comment" like "Change Attributes")
* Commands/CD Tree...
* Commands/System Information...
* Commands/Background Transfer Manager...
* Help/About Total Commander...

Bad title bar texts
* Files/Change Attributes -> title "Change attributes" (no capital A)
* Files/Calculate Occupied Space -> title "Total Commander"
* Files/Edit Comment -> title "File comment"
* Files/Print/File list -> title "Print directory"
* Files/Print/File list with subdirs -> title "Print directory:" (a colon ?)
* Files/Create CRC Checksums -> title "Create CRC checksums file" (no capitals)
* Mark/Select Group -> title "Expand selection"
* Mark/Unselect Group -> title "Shrink selection"
* Commands/CD Tree -> title "Directory Tree"
* Commands/Search -> title "Find Files"
* Commands/Volume Label -> title "Set volume label"
* Commands/Background Transfer Manager -> title "" (has none!)
* F3 View -> title "Lister"
* F5 Copy -> title "Total Commander"
* F6 Move -> title "Total Commander"
* F7 NewFolder -> title "Total Commander" (Folder??? I thought you always called that directory)
* F8 Delete -> title "Total Commander"
* Show/Custom -> title "Total Commander"
* Configuration/Options -> title "Configuration" (normally title is "Options")
etc. (many more)

It is quite a mess is it not?
I hope Christian Ghisler and his beta testers will pay more attention to the user interface.


Some quotes:
Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Fundamentals of Designing User Interaction > Getting Started

The Importance of a Well-Designed Interface

The usability of your application's design is not just a philosophical nicety for your consideration; it is essential to the success of your application. The investment you make in the design of your application contributes not only to supporting and keeping your existing customers, but also to expanding your customer base. Therefore, your investment in the design of your application directly affects your current and future bottom line.

Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Fundamentals of Designing User Interaction > Input Basics

Keyboard Input

The keyboard is used primarily for entering and editing textual information. However, the Windows interface also supports the use of the keyboard to navigate, toggle modes, modify input, and, as a shortcut, invoke certain operations. The fact that users can navigate through the interface by using the keyboard as well as by using the mouse is a fundamental principle and one of the key advantages of the Windows user interface.

Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Fundamentals of Designing User Interaction > Getting Started

Lack of Adequate Keyboard Support

Keyboard support provides efficiency for many users, but for those with sight impairments or repetitive-stress injuries, it is essential. Keyboard support means including keyboard access to all of your application's functions. It takes only a little time to confirm that your application's interface provides a logical tab navigation order.

Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Windows Interface Components > Secondary Windows

Title Bar Text

Because dialog boxes generally appear after the user clicks a particular menu item (including shortcut menu or cascading menu items) or a command button, define the title text for the dialog box window to be the name of the associated command. Use book title capitalization.

Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Fundamentals of Designing User Interaction > Getting Started

The Need for Improved Simplicity

Despite the popular support for Windows, there are still substantial challenges in providing the best experience for users. Computers are still too complicated to use, and support costs are high. Users frequently complain about the number of features they find in applications; they can't find the features they care about, and they can't figure out the features they do find.

Many users expect a computer to be as easy to use, and as predictable and reliable, as an appliance. They want a computer to work in a way that is familiar to them. Therefore, simplicity of design involves issues that must be addressed by everyone building applications for Windows.

Delivering simplicity does not mean just removing functions. It requires work. Even a simple interface can require a significant investment of code. However, the rewards and benefits are substantial, including reduced training and support costs and productive, loyal customers.
Last edited by white on 2005-02-19, 08:19 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by *Hacker »

Bug in menu Show/Only Selected Files
Selecting this option does not change the check mark in the menu.
This is not a state, it's a repeatable operation.
F7 NewFolder -> title "Total Commander" (Folder??? I thought you always called that directory)
Yes, but many new users didn't know that MkDir should be used to create "folders".

HTH
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Post by *Sheepdog »

Just taking these guidelines and checking Windows itself or other MS programs would show you a mess too.

And they have a bunch of teams and a pile of money to make sure their programs fit these guidelines.

I see that most of the functions have access keys. And I will report it if I miss one. And I will try to do it in a way that it is easy to fix.

Thus I can hope that @ghisler is not struggling days and days through all dilaogs to find a missing access key but programming new features I can use with my licence from 1995.

But if you are so dissatisfied give it a try. Write a complaint to @ghisler that you cant access the "Show two drive button bars (fixed width, above file windows)" via access key and thus TC is unusable for you.

I bet you would get your money back.

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Post by *white »

Hacker wrote:
Bug in menu Show/Only Selected Files
Selecting this option does not change the check mark in the menu.
This is not a state, it's a repeatable operation.
Well it is listed among the 'states' is it not? I think if the check mark is not changed, this operation should be listed in a separate section of the menu.
Further more when the operation is executed it temporarily changes the state of the file window from showing all files, program files or custom files into showing only selected files. Don't you think the check mark should be temporarily changed? And don't you think the 'state' listed behind the current dir should be changed temporarily?

Another thing. I wonder if it would be more useful if the 'state' (showing only selected files) or at least the current selection was more sticky. Suppose you have carefully selected certain files from a long list and executed the operation Show/Only Selected Files. Suddenly a popup window appears because you have new mail. Ouch.. you can start all over again. Restoring the selection with Mark/Restore Selection is not reliable (is this a bug?).
Hacker wrote:
F7 NewFolder -> title "Total Commander" (Folder??? I thought you always called that directory)
Yes, but many new users didn't know that MkDir should be used to create "folders".
Exactly my point. See what impact simple rephrasing can have. It's a huge improvement to replace directory with folder. Don't tell me that is too much work. The benefits by far outway the trouble of replacing. The term directory has no place in the 32 bit version of Total Commander.

So it is called NewFolder for new users. Then you would expect them to search the help file for creating a new folder. Now open the help file. Click on 3d. File operations. You will find F7 Make directory. Click on that and you will find F7: Create directory.
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Post by *Hacker »

Don't you think the check mark should be temporarily changed? And don't you think the 'state' listed behind the current dir should be changed temporarily?
Honestly, these would be at the bottom of my wishes for TC.
I wonder if it would be more useful if the 'state' (showing only selected files) or at least the current selection was more sticky. Suppose you have carefully selected certain files from a long list and executed the operation Show/Only Selected Files. Suddenly a popup window appears because you have new mail. Ouch.. you can start all over again.
This would be a bit higher on my list. :)

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Post by *white »

Hacker wrote: Honestly, these would be at the bottom of my wishes for TC.
What are your wishes? And to whose benefit are those wishes?
Do you want new features? Improvements of existing features? Better user interface? Better help file?
Are your wishes for personal needs? For experienced users? For novice users?
What do you think is best for the future of Total Commander?
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Post by *Hacker »

I will answer in the original order:
I don't think it is necessary to list them here. To my benefit.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes. I don't know.
To satisfy the needs of most of the users.

HTH
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Post by *white »

2Hacker
Thank you.
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Post by *white »

Sheepdog wrote:Just taking these guidelines and checking Windows itself or other MS programs would show you a mess too.
And they have a bunch of teams and a pile of money to make sure their programs fit these guidelines.
I already did a quick scan of my OS (Windows 98 ) and some MS programs. I found very little flaws in their user interface. Maybe you can show us the mess you are talking about?
Sheepdog wrote: Thus I can hope that @ghisler is not struggling days and days through all dilaogs to find a missing access key but programming new features I can use with my licence from 1995.
I think Total Commander will improve far more by improving it's user interface and documentation than by adding new features. We all would benefit from that. I am a very experienced user and think most people would call me an expert user. So I would not benefit most from improving the user interface. I have no trouble in finding ways to do whatever I want to do. So I do not want improvements mainly for my own personal needs. Do you?
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Interface bugs in Search dialog

Post by *white »

Interface bugs in Search dialog (menu Commands/Search)(ALT+F7)

wrong default command button
Quote from MSDN Home > MSDN Library > Win32 and COM Development > User Interface > Official Guidelines for User Interface Developers and Designers > Windows Interface Components > Secondary Windows

Pressing ENTER should always navigate to the default command button, if one exists, and invokes the action associated with that button. If there is no current default command button, then the ENTER key can be used for a control.
The default command button should be the Go to file button when Search results has focus.
The default command button should be the Load button when Previous searches on the Load/Save tab has focus.

ALT+S shortcut activates Go to file instead of Start search
ALT+S shortcut activates Go to file instead of Start search when Search results has focus.

ALT+S shortcut not working on Load/Save tab
ALT+S shortcut not working on Load/Save tab when Previous searches has focus.

Plugins tab: wrong tab order (Fixed in TC 6.53)
Wrong tab order: bottom to top

Plugins tab: Less rules button not disabled when not applicable
Less rules button not disabled when no rules are shown

Advanced tab: UpDown button has tab stop
UpDown button after Not older than has a tab stop.
UpDown button after File Size has no tab stop.
UpDown buttons I found elsewhere in TC have no tab stop.
Last edited by white on 2005-06-02, 18:18 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by *D1P »

I too have found a bug in TC interface. When I made search templates (a grouping files of similar types that it was more convenient to use search/coloring of files) has found out that the amount of elements in the list is limited. I did many templates (something about hundred), is displayed only 70-80 (did not consider).
I had to edit a ini-file manually, and TC works with it normally.
---
Still something:
Open Custom Columns configuration, doubleclick on any available column, close the appeared dialogue, and move a mouse. The mouse starts to move behind itself the allocated column (though mouse buttons is not pressed).
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Post by *Hacker »

Open Custom Columns configuration, doubleclick on any available column, close the appeared dialogue, and move a mouse. The mouse starts to move behind itself the allocated column (though mouse buttons is not pressed).
Yes, that is a known bug.

Roman
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Post by *Samezrp »

Hi,
I'm new here.
I've got one question.
Is it possible, or is there any plugin to force TC to show all folders names in capital letters?
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