[Feature Suggestion] TC Address Bar

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jb
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Post by *jb »

Excursion concerning the TC command line:
Many wrote:
Hacker wrote:I disagree. I never used the command line to call cd.
jb wrote:Do you use the TC command line at all?
If yes would you mind to give at least one typical example?
Black Dog wrote:Of course I do. Moreover, I found it very convenient. I can't say I completely happy with it, but it is good as it is now.
To Black Dog: Why do you answer on behalf of Hacker? Do you use multiple accounts?
Black Dog wrote:j> I forgot it because since years I use my command
j> line button as already mentioned


Well, "cm_visCmdLine" appears quite recently, in 5.50 as far as I can remember...
Please quote my words more carefully. I wrote that I knew the "keyboard trick" since years. Pressing the right or left arrow key in "Full View" makes the command line visible at least since version 4.01. I knew that the command "cm_visCmdLine" was introduced recently.
Black Dog wrote:Open CL, type one or several letters w/o spaces an press "Ctrl"+"Enter". This recalls the first command starting from this letter(s). But unfortunately, only first, you can't go through all matching commands this way.
Thanks for the clarification. I have not known this feature.
Black Dog wrote:I don't know typical procedures you execute via CL so GIGO ;).
I think the input was OK. Of course I did not ask you for an example that is typical for me (as I already know them all), but one that is typical for you.
Black Dog wrote:Anyway, for example I need to take a list of some specific archive contents not supported with Commander (yet ;)). I open directory with executable and copy the full (:)) path to the CL with "Ctrl"+"Shift"+"Enter". Then I open directory with archive and copy the short path with "Ctrl"+"Enter" exactly after executable. Then I make some editing, put appropriate command and parameters and press "Shift"+"Enter". Well, I forgot about one parameter. OK, I press "Ctr"+"E" and recall last command entered. Etc.
Thanks! At last we have a vidid example that shows some advantages of the TC command line over the native command line (besides the specialized CD).
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Post by *Valentino »

I also have TC's command line hidden, it is automatically pops up whenever I type any letter inside TC. For example, I want to type "format c:". So I press f and CL automatically pops up, then I continue typing "ormat c:". So, no additional keys were pressed! For this to work Brief View must be turned on (I use this view 99,99999% of time) and "Quick Search In Current Dir" mode (Operation tab of Configurations dialog) must be invoked with "Alt+Letters" or "Ctrl+Alt+Letters". I find this very convenient. Hope this will be useful for someone else.
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Post by *jb »

2Valentino
Thanks, this feature may be useful for me in the future when the TC command line will be less restricted. The feature is even better than you wrote. It works also in "Full View" (which I use in 99,99999% of time)!

PS: There is one (little) drawback: It is non-standard behavior in Windows lists. The standard behavior is "Quick Search (current dir) = Letter only" (AltSearch=2).
Last edited by jb on 2003-02-18, 16:15 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by *Hacker »

jb,
Do you use the TC command line at all?
If yes would you mind to give at least one typical example?


Yes, and yes, of course. Addwiz.cpl, desk.cpl or mmsys.cpl do wonders. Also "control". I also have a lot of batch files used for packing that I use quite often and it's easy to type 7z which packs the current dir with 7-Zip. And so on.

HTH
Roman
Mal angenommen, du drückst Strg+F, wählst die FTP-Verbindung (mit gespeichertem Passwort), klickst aber nicht auf Verbinden, sondern fällst tot um.
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Post by *Valentino »

There is one (little) drawback: It is non-standard behavior in Windows lists
But it's standard for NC users :). So it's a matter of habit. One just has to spend some time (several attempts to quick search smth) to adopt and then he'll be happy :). And this "little drawback" turns to "great advantage" :).
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Post by *jb »

And this "little drawback" turns to "great advantage".
I disagree because of the following: The roman alphabet has 26 letters. For simplicity I neglect the fact that file names may start with other characters such as digits, '_' etc.. So if you have quite a large directory containing 234 (=9*26) files with equally distributed initial letters (9 files per letter) and you have configured "Quick Search (current dir)" to Windows standard behavior ("Letter only") then you can focus a specific file on average by just pressing its initial letter 5 times!
I think that is clearly more convenient than pressing Ctrl+Alt+InitialLetter, SecondLetter, …, Esc.
(BTW: In this comparison I used Ctrl+Alt+Letter instead of Alt+Letter because according to the Windows GUI standard Alt+Letter is reserved to access the menu by keyboard.)
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Post by *Valentino »

jb wrote:I think that is clearly more convenient than pressing Ctrl+Alt+InitialLetter, SecondLetter, …, Esc.
You can press Alt+InitialLetter, DownArrow, DownArrow, ...
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Post by *bago »

jb wrote:I disagree because of the following: The roman alphabet has 26 letters. For simplicity I neglect the fact that file names may start with other characters such as digits, '_' etc.. So if you have quite a large directory containing 234 (=9*26) files with equally distributed initial letters (9 files per letter) and you have configured "Quick Search (current dir)" to Windows standard behavior ("Letter only") then you can focus a specific file on average by just pressing its initial letter 5 times!
I think that is clearly more convenient than pressing Ctrl+Alt+InitialLetter, SecondLetter, …, Esc.
(BTW: In this comparison I used Ctrl+Alt+Letter instead of Alt+Letter because according to the Windows GUI standard Alt+Letter is reserved to access the menu by keyboard.)
I disagree because you've done only a mathematical operation without hypothesis.

The hypothesis is :idea: : when you search a file you sure know the name of the dir/file you're looking for, but you probably don't know the names of all other file/folders in the same dir. :!:

So: :arrow:

If I need to go to the "Windows" dir and there are also dirs named "Wonders" and "Wallace" with your purposed way you should stroke "W" and look at the screen to see if you are on "Windows", you are not on "Windows" so you press W again and you look at the screen to see if you are on "Windows": well you are on it... 2 "W" strokes and 2 lookup of the panel to check.

The way currently TC works you probably write W-I-N (or simply W-I) and then you look if you are on the correct folder. You are on it so 2-3 strokes and 1 lookup on the panel.

I think that i can stroke 4-5 key while you look-up at your panel to check if you are on the right folder!

Another example: think at a folder where you have a lot of files with the same prefix. This is a common case, I think. With the standard windows behavior you CAN'T find the folder you're looking for: with TC you simply need to write the prefix first! :!:
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Post by *jb »

bago wrote:If I need to go to the "Windows" dir and there are also dirs named "Wonders" and "Wallace" with your purposed way you should stroke "W" and look at the screen to see if you are on "Windows", you are not on "Windows" so you press W again and you look at the screen to see if you are on "Windows": well you are on it... 2 "W" strokes and 2 lookup of the panel to check.
That's right, but you missed an important point: Because you just can hammer the very same key, you can fully concentrate on the screen ("lookup on the panel") at the same time. Furthermore you can also look ahead! When the focus is close to your desired file then you can see immediately for instance that you have to press the key 3 times more.
bago wrote:The way currently TC works you probably write W-I-N (or simply W-I) and then you look if you are on the correct folder. You are on it so 2-3 strokes and 1 lookup on the panel.
You forgot 3 additional strokes: the prolog (Ctrl+Alt) to enter the quick search mode and the epilog (Esc) to leave it. Furthermore N strokes of the same key are easier than N strokes of different keys.
NOTE:
The preceding discussion assumed option "Ctrl+Alt+Letters".
Option "Letters - with search dialog" is excluded if you want optimal access of the TC command line.
Option "Alt+Letters" is excluded if you want access to the menu by keyboard.
I admit that a comparison under such circumstances is not quite fair, but it's the course of the discussion (I did not want to sacrifice "Letters only" for optimal access to the command line).
bago wrote:Another example: think at a folder where you have a lot of files with the same prefix. This is a common case, I think. With the standard windows behavior you CAN'T find the folder you're looking for: with TC you simply need to write the prefix first!
I agree that's a good point. In your example the Windows standard behavior is less useful. But I think in most cases directories containing more than 200 files come quite close to my assumption of "equally distributed initial letters". And in these cases I still find that the Windows standard behavior is superior.
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Post by *bago »

jb wrote:That's right, but you missed an important point: Because you just can hammer the very same key, you can fully concentrate on the screen ("lookup on the panel") at the same time. Furthermore you can also look ahead! When the focus is close to your desired file then you can see immediately for instance that you have to press the key 3 times more.
I already stroke keys without looking the keyboard and I can lookup the panel at the same time :mrgreen: and I think many of the TC users do the same! BTW my lookup is slower that my keyboard typing anyway!
jb wrote:You forgot 3 additional strokes: the prolog (Ctrl+Alt) to enter the quick search mode and the epilog (Esc) to leave it. Furthermore N strokes of the same key are easier than N strokes of different keys.
NOTE:
The preceding discussion assumed option "Ctrl+Alt+Letters".
Option "Letters - with search dialog" is excluded if you want optimal access of the TC command line.
Option "Alt+Letters" is excluded if you want access to the menu by keyboard.
I admit that a comparison under such circumstances is not quite fair, but it's the course of the discussion (I did not want to sacrifice "Letters only" for optimal access to the command line).
I personally use "letters only" and use the "left cursor key" to open the command line. BTW you need the CTRL-ALT in both cases and YOU DON'T NEED THE "ESC". I used CTRL-ALT method until a week ago and I never used the "ESC" after my CTRL-ALT lookups, just stroke enter and you enter the folder!
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Post by *Valentino »

jb wrote:Because you just can hammer the very same key...
Furthermore N strokes of the same key are easier than N strokes of different keys.
I already wrote in prev post that you can press DownArrow after Quick Search box appeared.
jb wrote:You forgot 3 additional strokes: the prolog (Ctrl+Alt) to enter the quick search mode and the epilog (Esc) to leave it.
I use Alt+Letters, not Ctrl+Alt+Letters. And you don't need to press Esc - just press Enter to go inside a dir or to open/exec a file, or press F3/F4, etc.
jb wrote:Option "Alt+Letters" is excluded if you want access to the menu by keyboard.
To access the menu I press Alt, release it and press letter - the same two actions but separated (not holding Alt).
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Post by *Valentino »

Hi, bago! Almost simultaneously :). We can be accused of starting flame. I don't. Just sharing our experince in order to help somebody to find "optimal" TC using.
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Post by *Black Dog »

[face=courier]On 17-02-2003 21:55:03 +0000 jb wrote:

j> Why do you answer on behalf of Hacker?

This forum (as well as any over) is the place, there people ask questions to get an answers. So I just answered. But if you do not want me to answer your question, I wouldn't of course.

j> I wrote that I knew the "keyboard trick" since
j> years.


You didn't defined what "keyboard trick" is and I don't want to read your mind for such an insignificant reason ;).

j> I think the input was OK.

I think exactly the same about output.

j> At last we have a vidid example that shows some
j> advantages of the TC command line over the native
j> command line


Well, this is absolutely trivial example for NC or DN user, actually. I just supposed you did acquainted with full TC CL functionality before disabled it...[/face]
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Post by *Black Dog »

[face=courier]On 23-02-2003 02:15:46 +0000 bago wrote:

b> I personally use "letters only" and use the
b> "left cursor key" to open the command line.


IMHO "Letters - with search dialog" is the most functional and convenient quick search mode. It's faster than "Alt+Letters" or "Ctrl+Alt+Letters" - you don't need to press superfluous keys, you always can see what exactly you typed unlike "Letter only" as well as search for a files with specific extensions. And you can't run something just by accidental KBD pressing, for example you can't open explorer window browsing folders with "Enter" if you typed period casually.[/face]
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Post by *jb »

bago wrote:I personally use "letters only" and use the "left cursor key" to open the command line.
I also use "letters only", but the "LEFT cursor key" for cm_editpath and the "RIGHT cursor key" to open the command line (besides my button for cm_ExecuteDOS).
bago wrote:BTW you need the CTRL-ALT in both cases ...
What do mean?
Ctrl+Alt+Letter does not work with option "Letters only".
Last edited by jb on 2003-02-23, 10:02 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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