HLP or CHM for help file?

[Samuel]

IMO TC should not include the *.hlp files in the installer just for the <1% Win 95 users without the IE update...
(Christian still offers the files for download)

<ironic>You might be interested to download TC Ultima Prime. Its only about 100 MB. So you dont have to download any additional stuff. I think they pretty much integrated everything.</ironic>

[Lefteous]

2petermad
If something is default should depend on the fact if it's used by most users or not. That's why Ghisler started this poll and with both know the result...

- Many German users
- Few (actually almost noone) users who want to display the help on an outdated operating system version.

[petermad]

I really don't understand this resistance against shipping TC with both help files.

Ghisler seems to do a lot to make TC compatible with all 32 bit Windows OS's, so why not make it also compatible on the Help side - out of the box?

If something is default should depend on the fact if it's used by most users or not

I am sure more users worldwide use the English help than the German help - so according to your line of thinking, TC should only be shipped with the English help.

Otherwise why not strip all Win9x related code from TC, and from now on ask win9x users to download TC 7.0x just like win3x users are told to download TC 6.5x in the readme.txt file.

[Lefteous]

Come on - don't mix the need for translations and compatibility.

I agree that compatibility is important but there is always a point where you need to rule off something and make room for the new. Win9x is of course a good example.

I guess many would agree that too much compatibility has slowed down TC development a lot. The help file is a good example for this problem. It's simply a lot of work to do two help files. If you have a single source approach which saves times the result will never be as good as when comcentrating on a single help file technology. So in this case the cost is quality.


p.s.: Someone voted for HLP!

[petermad]

It's simply a lot of work to do two help files.

I am sure you are right - but since it is going to be made anyway (for download) the work is still the same. Unless Ghisler totally abandon the .hlp file in the future.

[ghisler(Author)]

OK, the installer with the CHM file is on the way to the public beta testers now!

I have written a small C tool which takes the HelpScribble html output and converts it to html+css. This way I can use a browser detection technique to make it work also with IE4 (Win98 default) and even IE3 (Win95b default), although a bit hard to read in the tables on the latter. Like this:

Code: Select all

<link href="ie.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">
<!--[if gte IE 5]>
<style type="text/css">@import url(ie5+.css);
</style>
<![endif]-->

On Windows 95 (original), no browser is installed at all, so I show the following message to the user (which is already part of the translation):

HTML Help not supported! Please download the help file in HLP format from www.ghisler.com.

I think that this way I don't need to include the HLP file. But I will of course still make it available for download.

[StatusQuo]

On Windows 95 (original), no browser is installed at all

This may apply to Windows 7, too.
AFAIS (european) Win7 will have at least an option to "completely disable" IE - or will even be shipped without IE, if the EU commision will not accept the suggested switchable design (german heise.de, 01.08.09).

A more detailed download hint (or direct link) to the category on www.ghisler.com would be nice to find it easier.

[Lefteous]

2StatusQuo

AFAIS (european) Win7 will have at least an option to "completely disable" IE - or will even be shipped without IE

Although there might be ways to completely disable IE this is not ment by disabling IE in WIndows 7. This just disables the frontend. The IE controls and the CHM stuff will work nevertheless.

[HolgerK]

...if the EU commision will not accept the suggested switchable design (german heise.de, 01.08.09).

Antitrust: Commission welcomes new Microsoft proposals on Microsoft Internet Explorer and Interoperability

Regards
Holger

[StatusQuo]

2Lefteous
2HolgerK
Thanks!

[Isabel GÓMEZ]

--> Include HLP or CHM for help file in main installer ?

Hello everybody !

1- I prefer the NON-HTML HLP help file to be set in main installer.

2 - Despite of the fact that my "native" languages are spanish and french, I like to use english for TCMD menus and Its help file.
Using english you can find really appropriate words and expressions to "IT" applications, french is not so flexible, and sounds "heavy".

3 - But I also use two CHM files, one in spanish and the other one in french, just in case of confusion when something appears a little hard to understand in english.
Unfortunately, when It occurs, I don't understand more in the other two languages !!!

However, I appreciate to have this three options available, the first one by default and the two others through customized command bar buttons !

Maybe other users are like me...

Thanks.

IG

[Clo]

2Isabel GÓMEZ

Hello !

…Using english you can find really appropriate words and expressions to "IT" applications, french is not so flexible, and sounds "heavy". …

• I disagree, it depends on who translates into which French…  

 KR
Claude
Clo

[Isabel GÓMEZ]

--> Pas de charabia !

Hello everybody,
Hello, Clo,

Of course, you're right !

But freedom [face=wingdings]III[/face] is something I appreciate over all !

It allows me to give my opinion, based on a long time experience, includind translations I've made by myself, in english, spanish, and french...

So, "No span, blada" !
("Dont'worry" dans le langage* des piroguiers saramaca de Guyane).
*Sranan tongo.

Cordialement.

IG

[petermad]

2Isabel GÓMEZ

If you name your extra .chm files: wcmd_fra.chm and wcmd_es.chm and put them in TC's language folder, then TC will use these help files when you change the language to French or Spanish, as long as the name of the language file you use has the syntax of wcmd_xxx_fra.lng or wcmd_xxx_es.lng, where xxx is your own choice if you use customized language files.

If you want a customized .mnu file to be loaded automatically when you use for example wcmd_xxx_fra.lng, then name it accordingly: wcmd_xxx_fra.mnu

To explain it in another way - TC uses localizations in sets - so TC will for example use the following files together if present in the language folder:
wcmd_xxx_fra.lng
wcmd_xxx_fra.mnu
wcmd_xxx_fra.inc
wcmd_xxx_fra.ini
wcmd_fra.chm
wcmd_fra.hlp

TC uses the .inc file that has the same name as the .lng file, and uses the .ini file that has the same name as the .mnu file.

By default TC uses the .mnu file with the same name as the .lng file, but that can be configured differently in the setup.

If there is both a wcmd_fra.chm and a wcmd_fra.hlp file in the language folder - then TC will use wcmd_fra.chm. If non of these two files are present, TC will use totalcmd.chm in its program folder.

[Isabel GÓMEZ]

--> Language files and their respective chm files

Hello, everybody,
Hello, petermard,

Really glad for your attention !
Thank-you a lot !

Unfortunately, I use TCMD since 1996 in english, and I like very much english menus, commands (including their abbreviated names), and I know them very well too !
I tried sometimes to set the french language, but "nothing to do !", I feel better with the english commands, even to customize the whole TCMD tool, set the description of the command buttons, etc.

So, I'm not interested at all in change the language !
Help files are a little different case.
I occasionally need a confirmation to make sense reading help files explanations, and is just comfortable to have quick means to get the same explanation in the two other languages.

My customized buttons are all that I need, I enjoy to have this functions easily accessible but they are not set for a frequent use.

Before to post a question in a forum, and when I have a doubt about my interpretation of a sophisticated issue, i prefer to try to read It in the three languages to be sure to have perfectly understood everything.

I'm a developper, and IT languages and their respective help files are in english.
Maybe is the reason of my (strange ?) behavior...

Excuse-me, please.
But I'm sure that the precisions you give in your post are useful.
It is interesting to know them, to understand how the system works, and they probably will help other multilingual users.

Thanks again.
Cordially.

IG