64 bit version?

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mcadae
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64 bit version?

Post by *mcadae »

I am sure someone has asked this question but will there be a 64 bit version of TotalCommander out anytime soon?

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MVV
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Post by *MVV »

You may use search for it.

No, will not. First of all because there is no 64-bit Delphi 3. :) And second, for file management operations there is no performance grow in 64-bit code after 32-bit.

crt
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Post by *crt »

Hi, i'm also want a 64 bit version.
the issue isn't file management operation speed, but how windows let's 32 vs 64 bit programs see some windows folders.
The best example i can think of is the system32 folder. In a 64 bit program it is seen as c:\windows\system32, but a 32 bit program will get redirected to the syswow64 folder. That's what happens to total commander as well. Try it out if you don't believe me. open the system32 folder with explorer and with total commander. you'll see that total commander gets another folder.

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MVV
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Post by *MVV »

crt,
If you want to see true contents of System32 folder, you may disable redirection using cm_SwitchX64Redirection command. But when redirection is disabled, some programs started from TC may not work correct. So I suggest you to create a junction (NTFS link to folder) for System32 folder and to browse it through created junction. OS doesn't redirect folder contents through junctions, so you will have full access to System32 folder. When I had 64-bit Vista installed, I created %WINDIR%\System64 junction to %WINDIR%\System32 folder and worked with %WINDIR%\System32 folder through my %WINDIR%\System64 junction. Also, keep in mind that TC shows virtual folder %WINDIR%\sysnative that allows to access 64-bit System32 folder w/o disabling redirection.

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There is a need for TC 64-bit!

Post by *lr123 »

It is not only the problem of system folder redirection. When I start regedit.exe from the TC command line, I cannot see the correct registry branches because of the 64->32 redirection. Furthermore, I can not always properly import the contents of a REG file by double clicking on it in the TC Window.

The time for 64-bit applications has come. It would be nice to have a choice between a 32-bit and 64-bit version of TC.

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MVV
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Post by *MVV »

lr123, it is possible to start 64-bit regedit, just specify right path to it. And, you may add internal association for REG files with 64-bit regedit.

As someone said in this topic (but he removed its post then), 64-bit TC version won't work with any existing 32-bit plugins, and it is a dark side of 64-bit version.

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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

Hello, crt.
crt wrote:the issue isn't file management operation speed, but how windows let's 32 vs 64 bit programs see some windows folders.
The best example i can think of is the system32 folder. In a 64 bit program it is seen as c:\windows\system32, but a 32 bit program will get redirected to the syswow64 folder. That's what happens to total commander as well. Try it out if you don't believe me. open the system32 folder with explorer and with total commander. you'll see that total commander gets another folder.
Please, read the Total Commander WIKI article on how to work around this issue:
On 64-bit Windows versions, some files and folders shown by Windows Explorer are not shown by Total Commander!

As long as there is no Total Commander 64-bit, there will very likely not be a real solution, just workarounds.

Whether one fine day there will be Total Commander 64-bit, this question has not yet been answered finally. Yet, the only one to give authoritative answers to this question is the programme author.

Kind regards,
Karl

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Post by *lr123 »

MVV wrote:lr123, it is possible to start 64-bit regedit, just specify right path to it. And, you may add internal association for REG files with 64-bit regedit.
Yes, I know, but I also decided to install GNU Double Commander 64-bit which I use for system management. In this way, possible mistakes, when calling a wrong version of system tools, can be avoided.
As someone said in this topic (but he removed its post then), 64-bit TC version won't work with any existing 32-bit plugins, and it is a dark side of 64-bit version.
Unfortunately, that's true, and this is why the new 64-bit version of TC should coexist with the old 32-bit version.

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MVV
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Post by *MVV »

lr123 wrote:I also decided to install GNU Double Commander 64-bit which I use for system management. In this way, possible mistakes, when calling a wrong version of system tools, can be avoided.
It is hard to determine which version of regedit should be used with some reg file because of good Microsoft joke called redirection. Instead of just adding separate folders and registry keys for 64-bit software they added such stupid thing...
Unfortunately, that's true, and this is why the new 64-bit version of TC should coexist with the old 32-bit version.
I think that even if 64-bit version will appear, it will be not usable to constantly switch between both versions.

BTW I've tried Double Commander (32-bit) and it is so buggy so on 64-bit machine I would prefer 32-bit TC anyway.

crt
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Post by *crt »

karlchen wrote:Hello, crt.
crt wrote:the issue isn't file management operation speed, but how windows let's 32 vs 64 bit programs see some windows folders.
The best example i can think of is the system32 folder. In a 64 bit program it is seen as c:\windows\system32, but a 32 bit program will get redirected to the syswow64 folder. That's what happens to total commander as well. Try it out if you don't believe me. open the system32 folder with explorer and with total commander. you'll see that total commander gets another folder.
Please, read the Total Commander WIKI article on how to work around this issue:


As long as there is no Total Commander 64-bit, there will very likely not be a real solution, just workarounds.

Whether one fine day there will be Total Commander 64-bit, this question has not yet been answered finally. Yet, the only one to give authoritative answers to this question is the programme author.

Kind regards,
Karl
hi
i already know about this workaround. however, it also creates such a problem:
Doing so permanently, will inevitably lead to problems with plugins which try to load DLLs from the system32 folder and now try to load the 64-bit DLLs instead of the 32-bit DLLs located in SysWOW64.

creating 64 bit versions of the plugins could solve it on a 64 bit TC. But now it won't work because a 32 bit app can't work with 64 bit dlls (a plugin is just that, a dll renamed to wcx, wdx, wlx or whatever)

speaking of 64 bit delphi. what's the 64 bit helper module written in?

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karlchen
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Post by *karlchen »

Hello, crt.

You may have missed this in the WIKI article. But the recommended workaround for all Windows platforms that support it is by using the invisible, yet existing aliasname Sysnative, in order to access the genuine system32 folder without being redirected to SysWow64.

There is no side effect in using Sysnative. - It can be used on Vista 64-bit, Windows 7 64-bit and Server 2008 64-bit.

For older 64-bit Windows versions I would follow MVV's recommendation and create a junction pointing to system32. - By the way, this has been explained in the WIKI article as well.

Using the TC internal command cm_SwitchX64Redirection should be used sparingly. Redirection should not be switched off by default.

Kind regards,
Karl

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Post by *lr123 »

karlchen wrote:Whether one fine day there will be Total Commander 64-bit, this question has not yet been answered finally. Yet, the only one to give authoritative answers to this question is the programme author.
I think, this is not only a technical question, but also a problem of a correct marketing strategy. Total Commander is a leading file manager, the best product of this kind in the world. In order to maintain the popularity of the programme and attract new users, the author should follow the market trends. In a few years, a program issued only in a 32-bit version might be perceived as an outdated product.
MVV wrote:64-bit TC version won't work with any existing 32-bit plugins
64-bit plugins are necessary and this is a matter of time, or ... perhaps a new concept of making (universal) plugins should be introduced? I mean, plugins that contain both the 32-bit and 64-bit code, loaded according to the used version of TC.
Last edited by lr123 on 2010-03-20, 09:38 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by *HolgerK »

lr123 wrote:I mean, plugins should check the TC version and load the appropriate (32-bit or 64-bit) code.
No Mixed 64-Bit/32-Bit Processes
Process Interoperability

Sorry to say, but Microsoft decided that this is impossible.

Regards
Holger

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Post by *Sob »

I wouldn't worry about plugins at all. Release 64-bit TC today and I bet that before Christmas majority of useful plugins will be available in 64-bit too. :)

lr123
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Post by *lr123 »

HolgerK wrote:No Mixed 64-Bit/32-Bit Processes. Sorry to say, but Microsoft decided that this is impossible.
I mean, TC should not mix, but load either the 32-bit or the 64-bit part of a plugin. Both parts could be located in separate files and included in one universal 32/64-bit version of a plugin.

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