64 bit.

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cue
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64 bit.

Post by *cue »

Do you plan make any 64 bit extensions for TC?
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Post by *Hacker »

Not in the near future, as there would be virtually no performance gains (the only exception being maybe the ZIP routine).

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Post by *Sheepdog »

And not before Borland will publish a Delphi 64bit version.


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Post by *ghisler(Author) »

There would be no performance gains for ZIP either, because of the additional 32-bit overhead. Only large database operation would really benefit from 64-bit.
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Post by *Hacker »

There would be no performance gains for ZIP either
Hmm, I thought you were saying the opposite some time ago...

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Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Only for the old 64-bit Intel Itanium processors, which run 32-bit programs quite badly. The new AMD64 processors use a technology (now also adapted by Intel as EM64) where 32-bit programs run as fast as 64-bit programs.
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Accessing 64 bit system directory

Post by *gigaman »

It seems that there's one problem with 64 bit OS though.

Win32 applications are not allowed to access the real system directory on Win64; every access to C:\Windows\System32 (or whatever the system directory is) is automatically redirected to C:\Windows\SysWow64. So, a Win32 application (such as Total Commander) actually doesn't see the real (64-bit) system32 directory. Instead, it sees two identical copies of (32-bit) SysWov64 one.
MSDN link

A possible workaround would be spawning a special 64bit worker executable to access the real system32 files - but that may be a lot of work.
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Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Oh dear, Microsoft astonishes me again and again with their "ideas". :(

There must certainly be a registry key to turn off this stupid redirection...
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Post by *gigaman »

Well, I hope there will be some other way to access the real system32 folder - but I'm not sure it could be done by simply turning off the whole redirection. I'd say it would break many existing Win32 programs (when running on Win64).
I'm sure many applications have the path "System32" hardcoded (instead of correctly using GetSystemDirectory) and Microsoft is usually trying hard not to break existing applications (since the users would avoid upgrading their OS if they did).

The thing is that the folder SysWow64 contains almost all the stuff as the system32 directory in 32bit WinXP - i.e. all the system DLLs, hundreds of EXE files (Notepad, ...) etc - all 32bit versions. The system32 directory contains the same - but in 64bit versions. So, if the redirection weren't there, Win32 applications wouldn't work, e.g. because they wouldn't find correct (32bit) libraries to import - the filenames are the same...
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Post by *SanskritFritz »

Interesting. System32 is containing the 64 bit apps. Hmm.
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Post by *ghisler(Author) »

How about creating a hard link (junction) with a 64-bit program to the real system32 dir?
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Post by *gigaman »

Good guess, I must say. Works!
(Didn't really try to link the system32 dir, but simply linked the windows dir - using sysinternals junction util - and the system32 inside of the linked directory was the real one).

Of course, the behavior may change before Win64 goes gold...
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Post by *gigaman »

OK, here is the documented way to solve the problem.
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Post by *Darth_Vader »

gigaman
Very interesting, but is there a way to cancel that redirection without programming, just for the user's convenience? BTW, the same question I've got about the redirection of registry HKLM\Software for 32-bit apps to HKLM\WOW3264Node, cos resistry plugin for TC is also affected by that redirection (maybe not only that one?)

So, I guess certain changes in the prog itself would be reqiured for correct run under WinX64.
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Post by *gigaman »

Darth_Vader wrote:gigamanVery interesting, but is there a way to cancel that redirection without programming, just for the user's convenience?
No, and you certainly don't want to do that! The redirection isn't there just for fun, it's got a reason. If you managed to turn off the redirection somehow, all Win32 programs would stop working - because they would be trying to load incorrect (64bit) versions of system libraries, which is not possible. So, this redirection makes sure that Win32 programs load 32bit libraries, just as they need, and Win64 programs load 64bit libraries - and everything works, without having to recompile old applications.
Darth_Vader wrote:BTW, the same question I've got about the redirection of registry HKLM\Software for 32-bit apps to HKLM\WOW3264Node, cos resistry plugin for TC is also affected by that redirection (maybe not only that one?)
Similar to the first part, even though probably not that critical. There's no reason to turn off this redirection. Win32 programs store (some) data in a different part of the registry than Win64 programs do. There's nothing wrong about it - it prevents unwanted interference. If a Win32 program needs to access Win64 part of the registry (or vice versa), it can do it (using the KEY_WOW64_64KEY flag). However, it has to be aware of 64bit environment to do it "safely" (which it probably is, when it knows about this new flag).
Darth_Vader wrote:So, I guess certain changes in the prog itself would be reqiured for correct run under WinX64.
I believe the main change would be turning off the filesystem redirection for Total Commander's own file operations - making it possible to access the real System32 folder and perform file operations there.
Sure, they'll be other things to finish (e.g. a 64bit driver is needed for paralel port transfer, possibly with a special loader) - but the main functionality should be OK.
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