Request: Unified command system

[white]

2white

...add a description of your proposal in your first post.

What do you mean exactly?

In your first post you mention the term you use for your proposal (Unified command system), the benefits of your proposal and some possible technical details of the implementation of the proposal.
After you mention the term you use for the proposal, a description of what your proposal beholds should follow.
Something like what you started with in the first post here:

Im Augenblick gibt es hier im Total Commander leider kein einheitliches Konzept. Ich kann einen Startermenüeintrag erstellen und diesem eine Tastenkobination zuweisen (z.B. Strg+Alt+F7). Dann erstelle ich einen benutzerdefinierten Hotkey, der dieselbe Tastenkombination nutzt. Hier hat jetzt das Menü jetzt Priorität vor dem benutzerdefinierten Hotkey. Hinzu kommen noch Anbauten wie das Nutzen von Startermenüeinträgen bei den benutzerdefinierten Shortcuts. Das funktioniert auch alles gut, aber es ist aus meiner Sicht kein einheitliches intuitives System, sondern ein mit der Zeit Gewachsenes. Ich bin der Meinung hier sollte ein Redesign gemacht werden.

Only in english and a better text. I think it can be described far better than that.

What do you mean by "Unified" in Unified command system? Do you not mean Uniform command system? Or Uniformed command system?

I didn't introduce that term. Another member used it some times and I used it for this thread. I'm always open for improvements. What I mean should be pretty clear.

I looked in a dictionery and found:

Unify: to make into a unit or a coherent whole

Uniform: of the same form with others : conforming to one rule or mode

I also tried an online translater on einheitliches. It returned uniform.
So I think you are using the wrong term. Maybe someone can confirm this?

[Clo]

2white
Hi !

¤ Following Oxford's dictionary :

einheitlich
1. Adj.
a) (in sich geschlossen) unified; integrated; der Film hatte keine einheitliche Handlung there was no unity of
action in the film;
b) (unterschiedslos) uniform ‹ dress ›; standardized ‹ education ›; standard ‹ procedure, practice ›.
------------------------------------------------------------------
2 adv. einheitlich gekleidet sein be dressed the same; die Prüfungsbestimmungen einheitlich regeln standardize
the examination regulations; einheitlich gestaltet sein be designed along the same lines; alle waren einheitlich
ausgebildet they had all had the same training

Regards,
Clo

[icfu]

Well, as "unterschiedslos" and "einheitlich" or "uniform" and "unified" are synonyms it's rather irrelelevant which term you are using.

But, the better term is the participle "unified" because it expresses that the original state was chaotic and it will turn into something you can call "uniform" afterwards.

In Germany we have a wonderful synonym project from the university of Leipzig:
http://wortschatz.uni-leipzig.de/cgi-bin/wort_www.exe?site=1&Wort=unterschiedslos&sprache=de&cs=0

Is it really important how you call it? Each and every person really interested in what's it all about can read the threads in Krusader forum and even watch some screenshots.
I have extracted one:
http://www.jonas-baehr.de/forum/usermenu2.png

"A picture tells more than 1000 words" like we say in Germany.

Icfu

[Helix751]

Whatever. Anyway, I stick to the term "Unified", because it is an initiative to unify a rather scattered way to define and call commands into one unique way of identifying, interfacing and assigning them.

It's more a unifying and normalizing that a uniforming, but the discussion is rather semantic, as we all seem to understand what Lefteous mean (at least people with a deeper knowledge of TC and a little programming maybe).

[Lefteous]

2white

After you mention the term you use for the proposal, a description of what your proposal beholds should follow.

The old system/new system list is intended to be the description.

Only in english and a better text. I think it can be described far better than that.

Translation of the example in the German text sounds like a good idea.


About the term discussion. "Unified command system" is intended to be a working title which should illustrate the contrast to the current system. I think it does this job quite well. It's not thought to be shown to the user.

[ts4242]

2lefteous
I came to here from TC Wiki
anspite of changing the current command system will affect many of already exist tools for TC it will need huge change in TC code itself

after reading your proposal i have some questions:

Check states for buttons are completely missing.

what the relation between the command system and this?
i mean we need to upgrade the toolbar itself not the command system
we also missing drop down button (like "View" button in Explorer toolbar) and also button group (like "alignment" buttons in wordpad

Hotkeys in menus are not updated automatically. You have to do this manually.

i think not your proposal nor other can solve this problem as the hotkeys are written in menu caption so how can your system update this
Ex: you have a menu its caption "New &Folder\tF7" and you changed the hotkey for "New Folder" to any other one. you still have to update manually!

when the user change a command hotkey where is this new hotkey will written in Wincmd.ini or in "Predefined commands file"?

if i understood well your proposal sys include the following files
1- Menu file. (equivalent to *.mnu)
2- Predefined commands file. (equivalent to totalcmd.inc)
3- Userdefined command file. (equivalent wincmd.ini [User] section)
4- Predefined Language file. (no equivalent)
5- Userdefined language file. (no equivalent)

and this is too much

[Lefteous]

2ts4242

anspite of changing the current command system will affect many of already exist tools for TC it will need huge change in TC code itself

I see your point. I like your tools a lot. But managing commands should be a core feature of Total Commander. I'm aware that a lot of changes are required. In contrast to the author I beleave it would be well worth.

what the relation between the command system and this?

The command system defines a set of properties for each command. Each UI component which is able to execute commands should implement as many of these properties as possible.

mean we need to upgrade the toolbar itself not the command system

Of course it's possible to extend the current "system" instead of redesigning it. But this is exactly what happended in the past resulting in a confusing interface.

we also missing drop down button (like "View" button in Explorer toolbar) and also button group (like "alignment" buttons in wordpad

Yes I planned to add this point. The generic approach is to apply a hierachical ordered set of commands to any kind of UI component which is able to execute a command. To do this on a button the toolbar has to support drop down buttons.

think not your proposal nor other can solve this problem as the hotkeys are written in menu caption so how can your system update this
Ex: you have a menu its caption "New &Folder\tF7" and you changed the hotkey for "New Folder" to any other one. you still have to update manually!

I suggested to not to write the hotkeys into the menu file. In my system the hotkeys are properties of commands not of menus.

if i understood well your proposal sys include the following files

4- Predefined Language file. (no equivalent)

The current file type for translations is lng.
Don't forget that bar and mnu files would be merged to one file type.
The structure files would be smaller because the would no longer contain language dependant information.

and this is too much

I don't see any other way to get rid of the current dependencies. Imagine you could distribute a file containing a hierarchy of commands without or with much less translations than possibly today.


Anyway I fear your addons will stay necessary (please don't get this wrong! You are not responsible for the current command "system" design in Total Commander) for a long time and even if they don't an implemented unified command system doesn't mean the user interface would be sufficient.

[ts4242]

2Lefteous

Anyway I fear your addons will stay necessary (please don't get this wrong! You are not responsible for the current command "system" design in Total Commander) for a long time and even if they don't an implemented unified command system doesn't mean the user interface would be sufficient.

I don't fear i can implement your system as i did with the current one
your system will Never affect Configuration Editor & History Editor and this enough for me

you didn't answer about this important question:

when the user change a command hotkey where is this new hotkey will written in Wincmd.ini or in "Predefined commands file"?

when i thinking in your proposal system i got a very good idea for Main Menu Editor: when you add a command to the tree the program will search the default hotkey for this command in "tc default hotkeys.hky" data file and append it to this command

Ex1: if you add "Make directory" the program will change it to "Make directory\tF7"

Ex2: if you add "Create a shortcut" the program will change it to "Create a shortcut\tShift + Ctrl + F5"

i already finished coding for this feature it was absolutly easy, just 8 new code lines

i also have got another idea which can solve current command system disadvantage auto updating menu shortcuts according to the content of wincmd.ini [Shortcuts] section but this one is absolutly difficult i dream for it but i cannot know how to implement it.

Ex: there is a command "Multi-&Rename-Tool...\tCtrl+M" but according to wincmd.ini [Shortcuts] section "Ctrl+M" assigned to another while "Ctrl+Shift+M" assigned to "Multi-&Rename-Tool..." so i update "Multi-&Rename-Tool...\tCtrl+M" to be "Multi-&Rename-Tool...\tCtrl+Shift+M"

i don't know if i will success or not

[Lefteous]

2ts4242

you didn't answer about this important question:

when the user change a command hotkey where is this new hotkey will written in Wincmd.ini or in "Predefined commands file"?

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed that one. It should be saved in the user-defined commands file. The changed attribute of the command overwrites the default hotkey. The idea is that the predefined command file is never changed by the user.
In a user interface these commands file appears transparently as one huge command inventory.

[petermad]

2ts4242

Ex1: if you add "Make directory" the program will change it to "Make directory\tF7"

Ex2: if you add "Create a shortcut" the program will change it to "Create a shortcut\tShift + Ctrl + F5"

Please make this optional - or make it possible to localize the strings (like "Skift+Ctrl+F5") - otherwise your program will suddenly only be good for making English menus!

[ts4242]

2Lefteous

The changed attribute of the command overwrites the default hotkey

but this will be a problem to any program handle this because when the user change a hotkey the program must trace all other commands hotkey property to assure there is no one hotkey assigned to more than one command and if found such repeated hotkey it must delete it and this will lead to another problem if the user delete the already assigned hotkey then we need to back this hotkey again to the original command (so we need extra info saved somewhere to reback the hotkey to its original command)

IMHO: the predefined command file include only default hotkeys and save the user defined hotkeys in Wincmd.ini with high priority

2petermad

otherwise your program will suddenly only be good for making English menus!

don't worry

[Lefteous]

2ts4242

but this will be a problem to any program handle this because when the user change a hotkey the program must trace all other commands hotkey property to assure there is no one hotkey assigned to more than one command and if found such repeated hotkey it must delete it and this will lead to another problem if the user delete the already assigned hotkey then we need to back this hotkey again to the original command (so we need extra info saved somewhere to reback the hotkey to its original command)

IMHO: the predefined command file include only default hotkeys and save the user defined hotkeys in Wincmd.ini with high priority

Although I cannot follow all your arguments I'm open to good ideas and this definitely something to think about.
The predefined command file should have a hotkey section which could look identical to the section currently found in Wincmd.ini.
The user hotkeys could be in a section with the same name in the user-defined commands file. I still see no reason to put them Wincmd.ini.
Another important point: The way the hotkeys are stored shoulds have no impact on the user interface.

BTW: I will not update my proposal in this thread - only in our wiki.

[ts4242]

The predefined command file should have a hotkey section which could look identical to the section currently found in Wincmd.ini.

when you said "The changed attribute of the command overwrites the default hotkey." i was think the modified hotkey will written directly under the command property
but creating a section for those modified hotkey give the same result when i said "IMHO: the predefined command file include only default hotkeys and save the user defined hotkeys in Wincmd.ini with high priority"

believe or not since i read about your unified command system i think of it a lot as if it will included in TC 7 so i prepare myself from Now

[Lefteous]

2ts4242

when you said "The changed attribute of the command overwrites the default hotkey." i was think the modified hotkey will written directly under the command property

By "overwriting" I just didn't mean physically overwrite an entry in a file. Just that that a user-defined entry overrules (a much better word I think) the default one.
But indeed my original idea was to save the hotkey directly as one of the command properties. But the fact that it has to be unique makes a section a much better idea.

but creating a section for those modified hotkey give the same result when i said "IMHO: the predefined command file include only default hotkeys and save the user defined hotkeys in Wincmd.ini with high priority"

Yes I just applied your suggestion except the location for user-defined hotkeys.

believe or not since i read about your unified command system i think of it a lot as if it will included in TC 7 so i prepare myself from Now

The more people think (write, dicuss, whatever) about it there more likely becomes its implementation.

[rojer_31]

Hi,
I just registered right now (in the forum ) to say that I support this idea. The framework defined by Lefteous appears well written. Now, I would really like to the author's take on all this. After all, if anyone is going to implement it, it's going to be Ghisler.

I would have thought on a topic like this the author would atleast express his idea briefly so as to not get anyone's hope up too much

For these reasons it seems more or less obvious that the author has some reservations with such a system. My kind request is to bring these issue(s) out into the open so that perhaps a modified/alternate system could be devised that is more in line with the author's thoughts. If the author completely disapproves of this system, then he could simply state that here, so that atleast more people are aware of the author's intent on this subject.