[inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Filename for wcx_ftp.ini file defaults to wincmd.ini

Post by *white »

9. The tool says in the opening dialog:
This tool will also copy registry settings from previous Commander versions.
What does that mean exactly? That custom filenames for wincmd.ini and wcx_ftp.ini will be preserved? Or does it mean something different?

Could this be an old reference to Windows Commander, which the tool no longer supports? Is that why it uses "Commander versions" instead of "Total Commander versions," which seems more appropriate?

10. The readme.txt file says:
inireloc - tool to set different ini locations

This tool sets different locations for the files wincmd.ini and wcx_ftp.ini
for the program "Total Commander". The older Wincmd is no longer supported!
I think the text could be made clearer and I'm not sure what the last sentence means.
Perhaps something like this is better:
inireloc - Tool for changing the locations of Total Commander's INI files

This tool lets you change the locations of the configuration files wincmd.ini
and wcx_ftp.ini by modifying the Windows registry. The older version of
Total Commander, called Windows Commander, is no longer supported.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

1. OK, fixed
2. Sorry, prefer to keep it where it is, to prevent people from making dumb choices
3. This is also intentional, so Enter opens the help. Going through this page with Enter makes no sense, because you call this tool explicitly to CHANGE the ini location, not leave it unchanged.
4. I think that "<< Back" and "Next >>" are more clear than just "<" and ">"
5. You have a point, but is "Install" really the right word? Nothing will be installed, just some registry settings will be set or updated. Any better ideas?
6. I agree about showing "for all users". But I will not show the install folder because that can't be changed by the user.
7+8. Setting the install location was taken from the installer, to make it easier for updates. Should I remove that alltogether?
9. Yes, it looks for what's currently stored as ini locations and lets the user change them
10. OK, I will use that
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *white »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC 5. You have a point, but is "Install" really the right word? Nothing will be installed, just some registry settings will be set or updated. Any better ideas?
How about "Apply" or "Save"?
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC 6. I agree about showing "for all users". But I will not show the install folder because that can't be changed by the user.
Users should know what is being altered, even if they can't directly change it themselves.
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC 7+8. Setting the install location was taken from the installer, to make it easier for updates. Should I remove that alltogether?
Probably best to remove it. If you do want to change the location of the install folder in the registry and wincmd.ini, please be transparent about it and handle it more intelligently, avoiding saving/overwriting it unnecessarily.
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC 9. Yes, it looks for what's currently stored as ini locations and lets the user change them
Perhaps changing the text to be similar as the new text in readme file would be clearer. For example, change:
With this program, you can define your own location for the settings (.ini files).

This tool will also copy registry settings from previous Commander versions.

Click Next to continue.
To:
With this program, you can change the locations of the configuration files
wincmd.ini and wcx_ftp.ini by modifying the Windows registry.

Click Next to continue.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *Dalai »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC5. You have a point, but is "Install" really the right word? Nothing will be installed, just some registry settings will be set or updated. Any better ideas?
There are several terms to choose from: "Change", "Set", "Set Location", "Update", "Apply". Probably not all of them are equally fitting.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Here is beta 3 with some of the requested changes:
https://www.totalcommander.ch/beta/inireloc2_beta3.zip

20241206 Fixed: Do not write the Total Commander location to the registry or ini files
20241206 Fixed: Changed the wording of some static texts and buttons
20241205 Fixed: On the last page, inform the user if the locations are set for all users
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *white »

Tested inireloc2_beta3.zip.

In the second dialog where you can choose to use separate locations for wincmd.ini and wcx_ftp.ini, the issue of the duplicate access key is fixed.
Should the tool recognize if the user is currently using separate locations (as the result of current user and local machine registry settings combined)? Currently, it seems that "No" is always selected.
The text of the dialog could be made more concise by removing redundancy. For example by changing:
You can define different locations for the general settings file (wincmd.ini) and the FTP settings file (wcx_ftp.ini).
Normally the ftp connections are stored in the same directory, but they can be placed in a different directory, e.g. to share connections with others.
Do you want to put them in separate directories?
into:
Normally, the general settings file (wincmd.ini) and the FTP settings file (wcx_ftp.ini) are stored in the same location. However, you can use separate locations, for example to share FTP connections with others.

Do you want to use separate locations for these files?
I can confirm that in the last dialog the "Next >>" button is replaced by an "Apply" button.
But you did not adjust the text: "Click Next to save these locations to the registry!"
I also wonder why you used access key "p" instead of "A" for the button.
I can confirm that "(for all users)" is added to the end of the text if at least one of the locations is stored for all users. But note that your tool allows for the location for wincmd.ini to be stored for the current user and the location for wcx_ftp.ini to be stored for all users, or vice versa. So perhaps the text:
New ini file locations (full paths):
C:\Users\M\AppData\Roaming\GHISLER\wincmd.ini
C:\Users\M\AppData\Roaming\GHISLER\wcx_ftp.ini
Click Next to save these locations to the registry!
(for all users)
should be something like this:
New ini file locations (full paths) for the current user:
C:\Users\M\AppData\Roaming\GHISLER\wincmd.ini

New ini file locations (full paths) for all users:
C:\Users\M\AppData\Roaming\GHISLER\wcx_ftp.ini

Click Apply to save these locations to the registry.
I still think the Help dialog that the user can invoke in the dialog where he can choose a new location, shouldn't be a warning dialog, but an information dialog (without beep).
The help text in the dialog is:
The advantages of the different options are:
- Windows dir: Useful when using multiple versions of Total Commander in parallel
- Program dir: Useful when using the program from several operating systems
- Documents and Settings: Gives each user individual settings
- User defined: e.g. home directory on a server, to use your settings network-wide
- For all users: Sets the location for all users, useful with option"Documents and Settings"

If you aren't sure which directory to use, select the default or check with your system administrator.
The text is outdated and not presented in a very readable way.
Is "- Windows dir: Useful when using multiple versions of Total Commander in parallel" still valid?
Is "- Program dir: Useful when using the program from several operating systems" still valid?
"- Application data" is missing.
The text "- For all users: .." lacks a space behind "option" and is outdated because we now also have the option "Application data".
The text "If you aren't sure which directory to use, select the default or check with your system administrator." suggests to use the default when the user isn't sure. So that would be the Windows directory according to the dialog itself. Would you still call that the default location? If not, the text in the dialog should be changed too.

Perhaps a help text similar to this is more helpful:
Explanation of the possible INI file locations:

- Windows directory
Legacy location, used to be a common location for INI files in early Windows versions.

- Program directory
Legacy location, used in the past when using the Total Commander from several Windows versions.

- Application data (preferred location)
Gives each user individual settings. This is the preferred location for recent Windows versions.

- Documents and Settings
Legacy location, gives each user individual settings.

- User defined
E.g. home directory on a server, to use your settings network-wide.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Here is beta 4 with some of the requested changes:
https://www.totalcommander.ch/beta/inireloc2_beta4.zip
Should the tool recognize if the user is currently using separate locations
That would be nice to have, but I don't currently have the time to implement this. Maybe in a later version.
The text of the dialog could be made more concise by removing redundancy. For example by changing
I had to shorten this a lot, it just didn't fit in the dialog.
I still think the Help dialog that the user can invoke in the dialog where he can choose a new location, shouldn't be a warning dialog, but an information dialog (without beep).
I changed it to MB_ICONINFORMATION, but this may still cause a different beep.
The text is outdated and not presented in a very readable way.
I have updated it a bit. "Program directory" isn't legacy, it still makes sense when not installing under "Program files", e.g. when someone wants to run multiple Total Commander versions in parallel with different settings for each.
I can confirm that "(for all users)" is added to the end of the text if at least one of the locations is stored for all users. But note that your tool allows for the location for wincmd.ini to be stored for the current user and the location for wcx_ftp.ini to be stored for all users, or vice versa.
No, when you change it in one dialog, it actually applies to both.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *white »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-15, 09:57 UTC
The text of the dialog could be made more concise by removing redundancy. For example by changing
I had to shorten this a lot, it just didn't fit in the dialog.
Well, that's because you apparently did not understand my suggestion. I suggested to replace the entire text, removing redundant information and making the text 50 characters shorter. Not only does that of course fit, it probably also makes it possible to insert an empty line before the question at the end. That makes the text even more easy for users to process.

By replacing only part of the text, you did not remove redundant information and you still present the user with a text that is not concise and unnecessarily long.
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-15, 09:57 UTC
I still think the Help dialog that the user can invoke in the dialog where he can choose a new location, shouldn't be a warning dialog, but an information dialog (without beep).
I changed it to MB_ICONINFORMATION, but this may still cause a different beep.
Confirmed. (I hear the same sound) (The change is not mentioned in the changelog BTW)
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-15, 09:57 UTC
The text is outdated and not presented in a very readable way.
I have updated it a bit.
The text changed, but the presentation is still poor, making the help text far less helpful than it should be.

I meant with my suggestion to replace the entire text. I left out the two lines at the end because I thought they were bad and could be left out, and I changed the first line to explain what the remaining help text is about. I also use "directory" instead of "dir" because the help text should be more clear and not less clear than the dialog itself. And I made each option into a header and added empty lines to greatly improve readability. The idea was to make the dialog bigger if necessary to fit all the information.

As said, I thought the last line was bad. It suggests to use the default if the user isn't sure what to use. And I pointed out that the tool says that the windows directory is the default location. Note that this is not true anymore. Almost 16 years ago, with TC 7.50, the default changed for Windows NT-based systems. And 8 years ago, with TC 9.0, the text "(default)" was removed when using the installer, because:
HISTORY.TXT wrote:31.07.16 Fixed: Installer: removed "(default)" from Windows directory option, it's no longer the default (32/64)
And 3 years ago, with TC 10.00, the location "Windows directory" is normally disabled when using the installer.
My solution was to remove the text "(default)" in the inireloc tool as well, remove the last line from the help text and add to the information about the location "Application data" that this is the preferred location (which you did now).

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-15, 09:57 UTC "Program directory" isn't legacy, it still makes sense when not installing under "Program files", e.g. when someone wants to run multiple Total Commander versions in parallel with different settings for each.
I see. The help text still says "Useful when using the program from several operating systems" and not what you say here. And the text following it (Not working when installed under "Program Files") isn't very clear. Perhaps something like this is better:
- Program directory
Useful for running multiple Total Commander versions in parallel, each with different settings. Ensure write access to the directory (do not use this when Total Commander is installed under "Program Files").

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-15, 09:57 UTC
I can confirm that "(for all users)" is added to the end of the text if at least one of the locations is stored for all users. But note that your tool allows for the location for wincmd.ini to be stored for the current user and the location for wcx_ftp.ini to be stored for all users, or vice versa.
No, when you change it in one dialog, it actually applies to both.
Actually, you are wrong. I tested it before and I tested it again. Note that when settings are changed for all users, the settings are also stored under HKEY_CURRENT_USER (which makes sense), but not vice versa. Perhaps this made you think that the option in 1 dialog applied to both? It also doesn't make sense to provide the option separately and that it would apply to both. If it applies to both, you should show the option in the second dialog in disabled state.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *AntonyD »

It would be nice to try to take into account all the corrections proposed here above and finally finalize this 2nd version of the program.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Sorry, I'm currently too busy to work on inireloc.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Here is beta 5 with some of the requested changes:
https://www.totalcommander.ch/beta/inireloc2_beta5.zip
I suggested to replace the entire text
Sorry, I misunderstood that. Changed.
The text changed, but the presentation is still poor,
I have added some more line breaks.
My solution was to remove the text "(default)" in the inireloc tool as well
OK, I have done that now.
The help text still says "Useful when using the program from several operating systems"
Changed.

I'm now marking the ini files with an asterisk when they are set for all users too.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *white »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2025-01-22, 15:06 UTC
I suggested to replace the entire text
Sorry, I misunderstood that. Changed.
The text changed, but the presentation is still poor,
I have added some more line breaks.
My solution was to remove the text "(default)" in the inireloc tool as well
OK, I have done that now.
The help text still says "Useful when using the program from several operating systems"
Changed.
Confirmed.
ghisler(Author) wrote: 2025-01-22, 15:06 UTC I'm now marking the ini files with an asterisk when they are set for all users too.
Confirmed. Looks good.
readme.txt wrote:20250122 Added: Choose user interface language via parameter: 0=English, 1=German, 2=French
The "lang" setting in INSTALL.INF and the installer's command line switch /L use: 1=English, 2=German, 3=French. Wouldn't it be easier for the user if you used the same numbers for the languages and the same switch /L as the installer?

About the text in the first dialog:
I noticed that your translations to German and French do not include the information that the tool changes the registry. Didn't it translate well? I thought it would be good if the user knows right from the start, exactly what the program does.
The German text has a typo: "wcx_ftp.inu".
The German and French text do not clearly mention changing the location. But, as the name of the tool indicates, the tool is meant to change the location, isn't it?

What do you think about the following suggestions:

Mit diesem Programm können Sie den Ort für die Einstellungsdateien wincmd.ini und wcx_ftp.inu festlegen.
⬇️
Mit diesem Programm können Sie den Ort für die Einstellungsdateien wincmd.ini und wcx_ftp.ini in der Windows-Registry ändern.

Avec ce programme, vous pouvez choisir un emplacement pour les fichiers de configuration wincmd.ini et wcx_ftp.ini.
⬇️
Avec ce programme, vous pouvez modifier l'emplacement des fichiers de configuration wincmd.ini et wcx_ftp.ini dans le registre Windows.

About the text in the second dialog:
Can you add an empty line before the last line?

About the Help text:
English:
Perhaps don't use the word "default" here, but rather pre-selected, similar to the German and French text:

If you aren't sure which directory to use, select the default or check with your system administrator.
⬇️
If you aren't sure which directory to use, keep the pre-selected option or check with your system administrator.

German:
Three lines have a dot missing at the end.

French:
Suggestion:

donne à chaque utilisateur sa propre configuration
⬇️
Emplacement hérité, paramètres individuels par utilisateur.

The explanation of the option below that, has no dot at the end.

The explanation of the option below that, has no captial letter at the beginning and no dot at the end.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *wanderer »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2024-12-05, 08:47 UTC4. I think that "<< Back" and "Next >>" are more clear than just "<" and ">"
I also agree with that comment, but "Back" and "Next"??? It should be either "Back" and "Forward" or "Previous" and "Next" (i'd prefer the latter).
Last edited by wanderer on 2025-02-19, 06:15 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *Dalai »

2wanderer
Back and Next are the usual terms. Pretty much any setup based on InnoSetup, NSIS or Windows Installer (MSI) uses them.

Example: https://fernandofreitasalves.com/how-to-create-an-msi-installer-using-inno-setup/
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Re: [inireloc 20040916] Issues related to inireloc

Post by *wanderer »

2Dalai
Funny. Hadn't really noticed it until this post by Christian...
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