[TC 11.00b5] Inconsistent behavior of cursor visibility with diff. settings of "Scroll to" for History

[petermad]

TC behaves inconsistently regarding showing the cursor in the History list when the list is opened, depending on the different settings of "Scroll to:"

Scroll list: set to:
to last visited folder
If "Show last visited directory closest to the middle of the list" is enabled the cursor is set correctly.
If it is disabled it is not visible when the list is opened. If I press the Down key the cursor gets visible in the correct place if "Reverse order is enabled" - if "Reverse order" is disabled I have to press the Up key to see the cursor in the correct place.

to most frequently used folder
If "Show most frequently used directory in the middle of the list" is enabled the cursor is set correctly.
If it is disabled it is not visible when the list is opened. If I press the Down key the cursor gets visible in the correct place if "Reverse order is enabled" - if "Reverse order" is disabled I have to press the Up key to see the cursor in the correct place..

to the top
The cursor is never set. If I press the Down key the cursor gets visible in the correct place on the first item.

to the bottom
The cursor is never set. If I press the Up key the cursor gets visible in the correct place on the last item.

to the middle, on history list
The cursor is always visible and placed in the correct position when opening the list.

to the middle, on frequently used folders
The cursor is always visible and placed in the correct position when opening the list.

[AntonyD]

Maybe we should consider removing this option altogether? Honestly - under what conditions is its presence necessary and can help with something real? If we open this dialog, then to select the desired position, we need to see (filter) it and click the mouse button - that's all. Pre-scrolling to some special place is not needed! It can't anticipate my choice forehand!

[NikolaAnt]

Ghisler wrote somewhere on the forum (something like this):
I meant the location of the history list - up or down.
The correct line is to write:
2121="List recently visited directories at the top"
According to line 6721: I practically support AntonyD. Only the first two values are needed
6721="to last visited folder\nto most frequently used folder"

... If we open this dialog, then to select the desired position, we need to see (filter) it and click the mouse button - that's all. Pre-scrolling to some special place is not needed! It can't anticipate my choice forehand!

[ghisler(Author)]

TC behaves inconsistently regarding showing the cursor in the History list when the list is opened, depending on the different settings of "Scroll to:"

This behaviour is intentional and will not be changed. Let me explain:
1. When the position is at the start or end of the list, we can just scroll there. The user can then move the cursor up or down to go to the start or end. This is the behaviour of TC 10.52 and older (scroll to end), and i do not want to change it for backwards compatibility.
2.When the position is in the middle, the cursor has to be set somewhere, otherwise the user wouldn't see where it is.

[AntonyD]

Let me explain:

IMHO - if you have to explain the logic of some "very-easy-to-use" functionality - this is ALREADY "very-hard-to-use" behavior(((

When the position is at the start or end of the list, we can just scroll there

OK - as you said - this is the behavior of any similar lists a-la "choose me" (like in older TC, etc....).
And the only problem in understanding - "position of what?" Desirable position of selected item? Why it has to be moved/reselected somewhere?
When we open such lists we expect that selection ALWAYS will be on the first item, EVEN IF this item is not visible for some reasons;))
Yes - looks like a joke, isn't it? But such a truth. And now you are trying to say that we must do 2 things: 1) to scroll list to somewhere (top, bottom, "middle???") and 2) select some item from the visible ones? And that is the "easy-to-use" logic?

P.S. I tried to really hard test it - but I could NEVER get proper selected item! I have always opened the list so that the mouse cursor is guaranteed to be over some element in the upper third of the list. So it turns out that it makes no sense to scroll somewhere and highlight some position in this case at all! For this does not have time to work - how the condition of having the mouse cursor over the list element is triggered and it is highlighted and the list is scrolled to it.
Here, under these conditions of proven behavior - please explain - WHY this introduced option at all? It won't work at all!

[petermad]

This is the behaviour of TC 10.52 and older (scroll to end), and i do not want to change it for backwards compatibility.

We now have a completely more complex History menu than what we had in TC 10.52, there is no reason to have backward compatibility for this.

There are 4 different parameters that can affect the order of the list:
Show last visited directory closest to the middle of the list"
Show most frequently used directory in the middle of the list"
"Reverse order"
"Show most frequently used directories"
That is 16 combinations.

The user might not always remember which combination that is the current, so it would be very nice if the cursor was always visible on the position chosen at "Scroll list (to)", so he wouldn't have to guess.

Also for example the text ""to last visited folder" is the misleading since it is not always to the folder (if it is in the top), but in a way it is "before" the last visited folder.

Also - because the cursor is not always on an Item we are prevented from for example pressing Alt-down -> Enter to go to the most frequently used folder (if not shown at the middle). Alt+Down -> Enter opens the quick search dialog in that case where the cursor is not visible.

Same problem with most of the other shortcuts in the History list (Shift+Enter, Ctrl+Shift+Up, Shift+Delete, Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right) - they all don't work without a visible cursor.

[AntonyD]

That is 16 combinations.

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. A, B
6. A, C
7. A, D
8. B, C
9. B, D
10. C, D
11. A, B, C
12. A, B, D
13. A, C, D
14. B, C, D
15. A, B, C, D

I could calculate only 15

[petermad]

2AntonyD
Of course

[AntonyD]

2petermad
it seems this bug was thrown into the abyss of oblivion without a final clarification of the reasons.
Well, then let's continue a more pleasant exchange of data)))

Spoiler

https://tcmd.madsenworld.dk/TC11.00b6ang.ZIP
has already?

[ghisler(Author)]

2AntonyD
What do you mean? I have explained above why the cursor has to be set when it's scrolled to the middle, and why not when scrolled to the beginning or end.

[AntonyD]

I have explained above

And after that, I - and our colleague petermad - we outlined the reasons that either we need to change the behavior of scrolling, or we need to remove all the extra choices for scrolling - because they don’t make the environment more comfortable with the program, they just freeze. Once again I remind you that for some reason you do not have the habit of accompanying the text in the help file some more clearly speaking pictures. For example, I only hope that our translators will be able to add some more visual aids to the definition of "middle" in relation to two sections. I only understand the top of the list, the bottom of the list. And the element under the mouse cursor. That's all and it’s enough! And the fact of some kind of forced scrolling about something and somewhere - it only bothers me. By the way, read my other bug (soon I'll publish it). There’s something else about that scroll.

[ghisler(Author)]

they just freeze

Sorry, I don't understand, where does the program freeze?

I know that I don't handle all 15 cases, but even more people would complain if I did.

[AntonyD]

not program freeze ))) but a mind.
These descriptions(list entries) do not give a clear understanding of what is supposed to happen and where in terms of process "SCROLL TO...".
They're blowing my mind with this. They slow the mind down

There is no expectation to see such a number of options for some FORCED scrolling. Despite the fact that this is an option that I am free to choose myself - where to scroll - I need to understand before that - where and why and with respect to what you can do this at all. But there is no such understanding.
Or rather, it always exists in the form of a very simple law - if the list is very long and needs to be displayed - it is simply displayed with appropriated scroll bars, and there I myself will "scroooooll" it to where I need it. Bringing some part of it under the mouse cursor automatically, given that there are 15 layout options for this list/menu, is too unreasonable.

[white]

Moderator message from: white » 2023-06-08, 18:30 UTC

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