[TC 11.50ß2] Use ellipsis instead of three dots

[norfie²]

TCmd uses 3 dots instead of the correct character ellipsis for the ellipsis character.
The ellipsis character is defined in Codepage 1252 with hexadecimal value 85h. Therefore it should work under all cirumstances with ansi encoding.

3 dots: "Change Start Menu..."
ellipsis: "Change Start Menu…"

[Dalai]

Well, ANSI is not just codepage 1252 - there are a lot more of them. No idea if this character exists in all the codepages used in TC language/menu files.

And this should be a suggestion rather than a bug report since there's no bug.

Anyway, to be honest, I hate the ellipsis character. It's too small for me to be seen at a glance. But maybe that's just a me problem.

[norfie²]

IMHO it is a mistake to use the wrong character. Ellipsis is defined in codepages 1250, 1251, 1253, 1254, 1255, 1256 … too. However, it is the task of the translators to use the correct sign for omissions - as it is already today. How the ellipsis looks compared to the 3 dots is a question of the font. Segoe UI has no visible differences, with Microsoft Sans Serif the differences are clear.

[ghisler(Author)]

This is intentional because the character is missing in many fonts. Also users using English language TC on other codepages may run into troubles.

[norfie²]

You will only have problems if you use a non-Ansi Windows codepage. Almost every codepage based on Latin characters has the ellipsis as code 0x85.

[Usher]

2norfie²
US-ASCII is the only common subset for all codepages. It's 7-bit character set while ellipsis is a Unicode character U+2026.

[norfie²]

2Usher
It is true that ASCII occurs more frequently than the many Windows code pages with ellipsis coded with 0x85. English is the only language in TCmd that could get by with ASCII. All other languages use characters beyond this, i.e. if you set a different language than can be displayed with the active code page, you will see an incorrect display anyway.

"In which Windows version did Windows ANSI Western (cp 1252) first appear?"
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7762464/in-which-windows-version-did-windows-ansi-western-cp-1252-first-appear

Is there perhaps anyone who can check whether ellipsis exists under Windows 1.0 with the encoding 0x85?

[Usher]

2norfie²
1. Three dots in menus and other elements of user interfece are used traditionally independent on language set. You can use resource editor to see it. It's even described in Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_computer_user_interface
You can select any single dot in examples provided in this article.

2. All ANSI codepages registered by IANA use the same code 0x85 for ellipsis, but current Windows versions support languages which don't have any ANSI codepage, for example Georgian. You can't use legacy biitmap fonts (system etc.) for these languages. Those fonts support only single codepage which does not exist for these languages.

[norfie²]

ad 1st: As you link yourself, the 3 dots represent an ellipsis.
ad 2nd: It would be nice if you could be more specific. Which fonts or Windows code pages do not support ellipsis? Georgian has which windows code page number? Why should you use the German language setting for TCmd on such systems, for example?

[petermad]

2norfie²

However, it is the task of the translators to use the correct sign for omissions

TC could be customized to replace 3 dots in menus and translation strings with an ellipsis but it should be an OPTION for the user to choose whether he wants that or not - personally I find the ellipsis much harder to see than the 3 dots (Microsoft Sans Serif).

If it was made an option for TC to replace ... with … - then if the user's font or codepage or locale doesn't support it, he can just not turn the option on.

[Dalai]

Why should you use the German language setting for TCmd on such systems, for example?

Because it can be done. But seriously, it's easy to forget that TC is not just used by home users. You should also consider multi-language systems used by people of various languages and nationalities. This is most likely to occur in corporate or educational environments, especially those of multi-national entities.

[norfie²]

2Dalai
If someone uses a German language file with the wrong system settings, then they already have problems today - regardless of using the ellipsis or not. In most cases you will have problems with German umlauts, but not with ellipsis, as the ellipsis is encoded in almost all Windows code pages with 0x85. Now it's your turn: Tell us a concrete scenario in which there is a problem with ellipses.

[ghisler(Author)]

Moderator message from: ghisler(Author) » 2024-10-22, 10:12 UTC

Moved to will not be changed.

[j7n]

There is no techical difficulty displaying an ellipsis on any normal language with a win-125x codepage on Win98. Windows NT uses Unicode and can mix symbols from any alphabet. An ellipsis is a standard character from WGL4 and present in all fonts for body copy.

But I am surprised that anyone would argue about the use of either symbol when there are functionally important things to change. In Tahoma 8pt the dots in an ellipsis consist of one pixel, but full stops have two vertical pixels and appear noticeably fatter and spaced out. Menus should preferably follow the style of other applications.