Plugin management system for TC...

[wanderer]

Hi everybody.

A small discussion for a plugin management system for TC had taken place quite some time ago in this forum. Since then, some programs appeared that handle the install/uninstall procedure but this does not seem to be enough. The are hundreds (or perhaps thousands? ) of plugins out there doing whatever task one can imagine but you have to download them manually (after you have travelled in several pages to find them and see what they do) and install them either manually or through one of the plugin install/uninstall programs out there.

Having all these in mind, i wonder, wouldn't it be nice to have a plugin management system similar to Firefox's one (with the xpi's)? That is, a web interface to organize the plugins into categories and download and automatically install them to the current TC installation on the PC. I know a few sites for plugins and TC related stuff already exist but AFAIK, there is no automatic "download and install" procedure for TC at his moment, right? I wonder though since TC has built-in FTP capabilities and HTTP capabilities through plugins, if there is a way to design a very simple web-based interface that would be running from within TC, show a page of a site containing all plugins categorized (like Firefox's site) and give you the ability to download and install it or update it if it's already installed. What part should be handled by TC internally and what part could be done by any TC user interested on that?

Any comments on that?

[SanskritFritz]

2wanderer
TC is used by many big companies. I think they would not like an automatic install feature. The idea, that a normal user can fire plugins just on the fly imposes security issues, i personally dont like the idea either. If I need a plugin, i will gladly download it manually and install it, this way i wont bloat my TC with "just try it out and forget later" plugins.

[wanderer]

2wanderer
TC is used by many big companies. I think they would not like an automatic install feature. The idea, that a normal user can fire plugins just on the fly imposes security issues, i personally dont like the idea either. If I need a plugin, i will gladly download it manually and install it, this way i wont bloat my TC with "just try it out and forget later" plugins.

1. IE's and Firefox's ability to do that does not impose such security issues? Many big companies already have problems with that. In order to controll such issues, the best (and most secure) way to do it is through policies which IE supports (up to a point) but AFAIK Firefox (and TC) doesn't.

2. What's the difference (security-wise) between an automatic-install plugin system and the manual one that TC already has? In any case, if a user wants to install a plugin that he does not know if it's harmfull, he can do it now manually and there is no way TC can prevent him from doing that since all settings are INI based and TC does not use the policies system. In one sentence, TC is already as insecure as any other program out there.

The way i see it, an automatic-install plugin system would only make things easier and would make a tiny difference in security, in the sense that any dummy user would be able to easily install any plugin he finds on any site. There are ways to handle even this problem though.

[szlori]

It would definitely be a nice selling point for intermediate level computer users.
What I mean is that power users always like to hack their own things, while user with lower computer literacy will not even dare to go "there" (installing extensions).

[wanderer]

It would definitely be a nice selling point for intermediate level computer users.
What I mean is that power users always like to hack their own things, while user with lower computer literacy will not even dare to go "there" (installing extensions).

Yeah, i hadn't thought of that and if you consider that the plugins in TC add a great deal of power... Perhaps Christian should give it some thought...

And to ease SanskritFritz's security concerns, what if TC had a built-in security system to allow automatic installation only from Ghisler's site and a few other trusted ones?

[icfu]

Why don't you just tell your browser to always open .zip and .rar with Total Commander? When a pluginst.inf is contained in the archive the autoinstallation dialog box of TC will open magically.

For uninstallation needs there is the tc_plugman:
http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/tc_plugman.html

Isn't that what you want?

Icfu

[Sir_SiLvA]

Having all these in mind, i wonder, wouldn't it be nice to have a plugin management system similar to Firefox's one (with the xpi's)?

Here you have a Plugin-Managment-Tool that works great:
http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/tc_plugman.html

I know a few sites for plugins and TC related stuff already exist but AFAIK, there is no automatic "download and install" procedure for TC at his moment, right?

And why should there? TC is a filemanager no webbrowser

I wonder though since TC has built-in FTP capabilities and HTTP capabilities through plugins, if there is a way to design a very simple web-based interface that would be running from within TC, show a page of a site containing all plugins categorized (like Firefox's site) and give you the ability to download and install it or update it if it's already installed. What part should be handled by TC internally and what part could be done by any TC user interested on that?

I would more like if http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/tc_plugman.html
could check if a plugin has be updated and then dl and install the update

[wanderer]

I would more like if http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/tc_plugman.html
could check if a plugin has be updated and then dl and install the update

I'm using this tool too. I'm talking about something similar to that, with the exception that this would either be a TC builtin function for security reasons or tc_plugman's creator would find a secure way to automatically download and install plugins only from known and secure sites, i.e. http://www.clubtotal.tk/ or http://www.totalcmd.net/ or any other known sites Christian feels comfortable to characterize as "trusted".

EDIT: What i'm also talking about is a tool in which you would be able to see all available plugins categorized, with descriptions, mark whatever plugin you are interested in and with the press of a button, the tool would download and install the plugins, or refresh already existing plugins.

[ghisler(Author)]

I have considered this too, but found it to be too risky. I think that the current situation is already much better than before, also thanks to sites like totalcmd.net and clubtotal.

[wanderer]

I have considered this too, but found it to be too risky. I think that the current situation is already much better than before, also thanks to sites like totalcmd.net and clubtotal.

I assume you mean the other known sites Christian feels comfortable to characterize as "trusted" part. What about your site then? Isn't there someone you trust enough to set as "plugins site manager" in perhaps plugins.ghisler.com which would be responsilbe for organizing the plugins?

If there are security concerns, then pehaps a system can be used to ensure the plugins are secure (allow only opensource plugins on the site or have a plugins beta team of people checking them). Perhaps there could also be a security rating system (i.e. opensource plugins will be marked by someone who has checked them as "not having any tricky code in them" and others may be marked as "questionable")

[ghisler(Author)]

That would be an interesting concept, but it would cost a LOT of time - I see this when I add new plugins, it takes me at least half a day to add 2-3 new plugins with all tests...

[Sir_SiLvA]

I'm using this tool too. I'm talking about something similar to that, with the exception that this would either be a TC builtin function for security reasons or tc_plugman's creator would find a secure way to automatically download and install plugins only from known and secure sites, i.e. http://www.clubtotal.tk/ or http://www.totalcmd.net/ or any other known sites Christian feels comfortable to characterize as "trusted".

Hey, you asked for comments - IMHUO everybody who uses a filemanager should know what he is doing opposite to a webbrowser wich need to be dau easy

EDIT: What i'm also talking about is a tool in which you would be able to see all available plugins categorized, with descriptions, mark whatever plugin you are interested in and with the press of a button, the tool would download and install the plugins, or refresh already existing plugins.

Then why don't you write such a tool ?

[wanderer]

That would be an interesting concept, but it would cost a LOT of time - I see this when I add new plugins, it takes me at least half a day to add 2-3 new plugins with all tests...

Yup, i can understand that it takes time, that's why i said that if there are someone (or perhaps a group of people) you trust, you might pass that responsibility to them. I cannot say how such a system should work (whether you should employ someone or trust some of TC's users to manage this for free (like it's happening now)). There are certain risks here because whoever takes that responsibility, if the files are stored under your site, he will actually be representing you, so he would have to be either an employee of yours or someone you trust very much. If you are indeed interested in such an idea, I hope you get some ideas from the users here in the forum.

[wanderer]

Hey, you asked for comments - IMHUO everybody who uses a filemanager should know what he is doing opposite to a webbrowser wich need to be dau easy

I generally agree with this but "know what he is doing" should not mean "do it the hard way". These two should not be mutually exclusive.

Then why don't you write such a tool ?

Well, i had thought of that some time ago but unfortunatelly i don't have the time (and web knowledge) to do it alone, so i'm discussing it, hoping that i could contribute whatever i can to someone else's work rather than starting something new.

[Sam_Zen]

Imo not a good idea. I don't mind doing some things myself, on the contrary, I like to control what's going on on my set and when and where. And it's not only a security matter.
I have noticed that the number of people, that don't know how to install things or even are not aware that of the existence of other, mostly better, applications, is rapidly increasing. Especially after XP came around.
My rule : I only accept automatic things if I am able to switch them off.